I heard rumors that there were some states where you had to have an all high school student band, but those were never confirmed. Anyone know of any?
If there were competitions that had rules like that, we probably would just not go. I think I could field a pretty awesome student band (with coaching), but most of those students are IN Powerhouse and would rather sing and dance in this case.
When you start a competition Wocctocs, you can make whatever rules you want! Now that I actually run a competition, I find that I am compelled to structure the rules in order to help everyone have their best show possible. It is something that FAME is actually very good at.
professional actually has a specific definition,
so there doesn't need to be any confusion over who is and who isn't
professional:paid. it's as easy as that.
haha, Ok... true true...
well my point is only that any choir who has more than 1 person in the combo, that does not currently attend the highschool they are performing with, should not be allowed to win the band caption award, and should be docked either a percentage of their score, 10 points, or whatever the scoring system may be they should get a penalty...
Like i said, the director can't come on stage and sing and dance... Franklin Central couldn't go over to NC and draft people to come join their show choir...
professional actually has a specific definition,
so there doesn't need to be any confusion over who is and who isn't
professional:paid. it's as easy as that.
Sullivan's band is comprised of their Ass't. Director on piano and the rest are college students from a nearby college, former Singers' members who come back to play and current high school students, i.e., this year: the guitar player.
I'm aware. They would still be classified as "professionals". This is NOT a bad thing. I was just saying who I had remembered.
Sullivan's band is comprised of their Ass't. Director on piano and the rest are college students from a nearby college, former Singers' members who come back to play and current high school students, i.e., this year: the guitar player.
FC and Center Grove both use hired bands as well... Which is surprising because i wasn't too impressed with CG's combo this year. I probably wouldn't have paid for that, especially since they have an incredible band program there.
FC is a different story... Mr Fyffe (the band director) pretty much discourages horn players from joining the singers... He at one point told me "why pay 1200 dollars to stand behind stage, it's a rip off". Not to mention he's about the worst band director i've ever seen... if it wasn't for Sarah Sorge, Well now Sarah Dunblazer (married), that entire program would be completely lost... never hire a percussionist to teach horns. Obviously not a good idea.
Having all those other great choirs at FAME Chicago would have been great (other than the early start time it would have created). We always try to make sure there are great choirs from other parts of the country in the competitions we travel to because I want my students to see and learn from these groups. Our way to be excellent is clearly not the only way.
One thing I think people on this site should keep in mind...this forum was created for the purpose of respectful communication between people who share a passion for show choir. Everyone is welcome to their own opinions and should share them freely, HOWEVER, you can accomplish this without putting others down. Basically, be kind to others even if you think they are wrong.
Indeed! Thank you Mr. Jennings. This is getting out of hand.
One thing I think people on this site should keep in mind...this forum was created for the purpose of respectful communication between people who share a passion for show choir. Everyone is welcome to their own opinions and should share them freely, HOWEVER, you can accomplish this without putting others down. Basically, be kind to others even if you think they are wrong.
Thank you Mr. Jennings. I strongly agree with this statement.
Having all those other great choirs at FAME Chicago would have been great (other than the early start time it would have created). We always try to make sure there are great choirs from other parts of the country in the competitions we travel to because I want my students to see and learn from these groups. Our way to be excellent is clearly not the only way.
One thing I think people on this site should keep in mind...this forum was created for the purpose of respectful communication between people who share a passion for show choir. Everyone is welcome to their own opinions and should share them freely, HOWEVER, you can accomplish this without putting others down. Basically, be kind to others even if you think they are wrong.
Regarding students vs. professionals in show choir bands, its obvious that it can work both ways. I do consider the adults that play for me professionals and they are awesome, however my student players are awesome as well. Powerhouse's band is 8 students and 5 professionals. If there were rules one way of the other, we would follow them. We did not, however, get the highest scores in the instrumental categories. I believe that honor went to Clinton's band, which I believe is all students other than Mr. Fehr. So, clearly you can do well however you choose to do it.
It is not just small band programs that might make it tough to have students. Huge band programs that have busy schedules themselves make collaboration difficult. I don't like to ask students to skip out on their other commitments in favor of my program. A balance must be struck and at each school it is going to be different.
Thanks to everyone who has supported us this season. Its almost over and wow has it been a great time!
QUOTE(show choir Man @ Apr 13 2008, 11:07 PM) [snapback]433000[/snapback]
yes if you don't have an all student band then you are automacially "disqualified" for the best band... and burroughs didn't recieve that...
sooo quit complaining
AH, but that isn't good enough... It's just not. A band is an important part of the show, so in all reality there's no way a band should get scored equally with more than 1 or 2 Professional instrumentalists... You wouldn't let the a choir director go on stage and sing/dance the show... If you're going to have adults in the band i think it's only fair to take a 10 point dock off of your band scores... Not just not be able to win a tropy, because it effects the total scores which in this case, were very very close...
I believe that Burroughs deserved their GC, and that they worked very hard to earn it. I also believe that the band issue is different in every region and we should agree to disagree... Most shows get scored for show design and repetoire etc, And those are purely scores for the directors/choreographers work... the kids have no say in that whatsoever and it does get scored so....
Quote from show choirman -
"And you say that Burroughs is overrated and they probably shouldn't have won and blah blah blah
You also said that even though they won they arn't as good everyone says they are to be. So beating the top choirs in the country means they arn't good??? Really?
Beating Attache the best choir in the country isn't an accomplishment?? Beating North Central the so called best choir in Indiana isn't an accomplishment??? Beating Waubonise isn't either???
Yeah.... once again.... you might want to get your facts straight.
PS I would love to see all those groups compete it would be a great competition. And also have any of those groups beaten Attache??? JUST wondering?"
I personally didn't see where Pocavvbass said burroughs shouldn't have won, but i'd disagree with that.
anyway, dealing with your silly silly post...
1) North Central is probably number 3 or 4 in Indiana this year in my opinion... Very beatable unlike they have been for the past 5 years..
2) Carmel probably would have swept this competition if they'd gone, i'd have put lots of money on it... (p.s. they're from indiana)
3) Hart beat clinton... South Jones almost beat clinton 2 weeks before fame if i remember right, they were leading in prelims by a good amount. I can think of about 5 other choirs from the midwest that probably would have beaten clinton this year. (Marysville, Findlay, Carmel, Ankeny, Urbandale, maybe even CG or FC, Huntington North, lots of others would have been close)
4) Waubonsie Valley has only been a show choir for 3 years and they clearly were in close competition with some of the best choirs in the nation... They can claim an accomplishment, not burroughs Lets focus on the history of the programs because we all know things change from year to year...
5) Now that i've seen the shows since they've all been posted... my results would have been a little different
GC: JBPH with the highest vocal, choreo, and show design scores ( i know fame has crazy captions that i don't remember)
1RU: Waubonsie Valley 2nd in vocals, 3rd in choreo, 2nd in repetoire (just bc i love a couple of the numbers probably)
2RU: Clinton Attache 4th vocals, 2nd choreo, 3rd in show
3RU: North Central: 3rd vocals, 4th choreo, 4th show
4RU: South Jones: (i didn't see Burroughs' girls, so i don't know if i'd rank them in 6th or in 5th...)
i don't particularly like the overall show design of either North Central or Waubonsie Valley, though WV has a few numbers i think they do really well, Though i wish they'd have pulled off the tye tribbett at original tempo...
i found clinton's vocal performance to be pretty disappointing, but the choreography was spotless as usual... the cleanest of the competition. But, John burroughs was very clean and intensely more interesting to watch. Burroughs Vocal performance was very strong and appropriate to the music they had chosen, but i'm not really convinced they can do much else but this kind of edgy show... My favorite choir as always, but i don't think they're versatile.
North Central as i said is a bit fallen from glory this year... 2007 was much better than this year, 2006 was incredible and no show that i've seen this year would beat that show i don't think, even as awesome as burroughs' is. 2005 was also an incredible year for the counterpoints, their "The devil you know" gave me chills and their band is always rockin... It's just not their best year... Still a huge accomplishment to be competing with these groups. there are what... 750 other choirs who can only dream and work hard to get there.
I think this competition was so hyped because of the big names, but really a couple of groups weren't what they usually are, and One new face was in my opinion over hyped. One thing is for certain, and that's that JBPH is an absolutely incredible group of performers and when you see them you always know you're going to enjoy it.
What i think would have been a much more interesting competition would have been,
Carmel
Findlay
Center Grove
John Burroughs
Burbank
Franklin Central
Ankeny
Urbandale
Those groups had the strongest records this season (hence the pickins)
In that field i'm not sure Clinton, WV, or North Central would really even stand a chance... It would probably end up Carmel, Burroughs, Ankeny, Burbank, Urbandale, Findlay...
So all of those groups are going to Great river next year right???
Also, I agree with Wocttocs in the aspect that Burroughs is overrated this year. Sure, their show is great, but I think the spectacle of the show is what steals the judges' attention and a little less of the singing and dancing (while they do both of those greatly). A couple of years ago, here in WV, there was a choir that did very well, but more so for their concept and the presentation rather than the execution, so I can see the signs of a show that is most impressive because of the spectacle. I honestly believe that without the spectacle of the show, I could see Burroughs getting second or even third at Chicago.
I'm pretty sure that what has stolen everyone's attention is how seamlessly the production fits together as a whole package. Every element on stage - the choreography, the vocals, the costumes, the set, the combo, and each individual performer are working together to present an entertaining, organized stream of ideas (a "show," one might even say!). In my opinion, Jen’s choreography is, at the moment, incomparably complementary of the feelings and ideas behind the music and the lyrics of each song. It's more than just something to look at. Burroughs has proven that there can be more to "execution" than hitting a move sharply or having a clean cutoff. What if Burroughs had a show that wasn't nearly as cohesive? Well, they probably WOULD have gotten 3rd…. like North Central, and I think that's the point. This competition proved that when it comes to groups as well-polished as Clinton, Burroughs, North Central, and Waubonsie Valley, it takes more than clean choreography and strong vocals to push one group over the top.
...
And as far as the bickering about which region is the best, I'm going to have to (for once ;)) agree with Ana. I don't think that there is anything wrong with comparing choirs and styles, but I don't see the point in continuing to argue aimlessly about which region is the best, especially in this specific topic. If anyone insists on continuing this discussion, however, I would strongly urge him or her to make more compelling arguments than "Oh yeah? Well look who's in our region: <insert Choir A>, <insert Choir B>, etc."
It would certainly be ideal for each choir to have an all-student band, but it just isn't possible for all schools (especially those with small, or bad band programs).
FAME Chicago 2008
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