While California has some truely impressive groups this year, they have nothing on the Debth that the Midwest has. I'de like to put Burroughs up against some other choirs out here... like Ankeny. Cali has a few great groups (Hart, Chula, Burroughs, Burbank ect.) But look at the great groups out here... Ankeny, Clinton, North Central, Urbandale, Waubonsie, Totino, Mt. Zion, South Jones, Teays Valley, Omaha Westside, and I could go on and on. Sure, Cali won a few great competitions this year. But to say Cali is better than the Midwest all around or that they are all together on top, that is just blasphemy. They are for sure catching up though.
You all keep mentioning the only 4 groups you have heard of from CALI. How would you know what is or isn't blasphemy andy? you have NEVER been to a competition in CALI. you've seen what 2 groups from cali and you have such a strong opinion lol. oh and when did Clinton move to the midwest andy?
Burroughs, Burbank, Brea Olinda, Chula, Hart, Diamond Bar, Los AL, Arcadia, Carlsbad, Serrano, Bonita, and I could go on and on.
1)I said that they weren't the best this year.
2)Proven by their loss to Carmel, they aren't the best in Indiana, which I said.
3)By giving each school their GC's for this year, I'd say that's fact. I may not agree with what happened, but it did, so therefore, it is FACT.
4)Yes, this is an opinion, but I also said that the spectacle is what did it for them IN MY OPINION, like I had previously stated.
5)Everyone I'm sure would agree that this year was not their best year. Put your precious Cali groups up against Clinton '04 or '05. Then we'd see. Or NC '06. We all saw how that went down.
I never said that there weren't any accomplishments here. Burroughs won. Straight up, they won. I can't change it. Congrats to them. I'm just saying that stating Cali is better than the Midwest as a whole is a strong statement and one that is untrue, given statistics. I'm done with this conversation.
i never said that Cali is better.... midwest is excellent.... i think that Cali is a huge force that is on its way and it is coming fast... just LIKE I SAID.
And honestly to hear that many judges have said that this year Powerhouse's set was the BEST SHOW CHOIR SET they have ever seen....
Then YES my "precious cali group" Powerhouse could possibly beat any show choir you threw at them...
Fact.
NOW i am done.
QUOTE(show choir Man @ Apr 13 2008, 04:13 PM) [snapback]432907[/snapback]
i have read this whole post over the past few months and recently you have put that NC Counterpoints isn't in the top 3 slots in indiana
BUT i don't understand why you say this because EARLIER on many of the midwest and Indiana people said that everyone was going to be blown away by Counterpoints and that they are the best if not in Indiana but best in the COUNTRY... now a little contradictory much???
And in the past few post you keep saying this is fact that is fact... honestly ALL of your posts are Opinion. SO i would really watch what you say is fact and what isn't and really get YOUR facts straight because obviously... you don't.
ALSO, Celebration doesn't have a choir this year.... so once again that goes back to not having your so called "facts" straight.
And you say that Burroughs is overrated and they probably shouldn't have won and blah blah blah You also said that even though they won they arn't as good everyone says they are to be. So beating the top choirs in the country means they arn't good??? Really?
Beating Attache the best choir in the country isn't an accomplishment?? Beating North Central the so called best choir in Indiana isn't an accomplishment??? Beating Waubonise isn't either???
Yeah.... once again.... you might want to get your facts straight.
PS I would love to see all those groups compete it would be a great competition. And also have any of those groups beaten Attache??? JUST wondering.
1)I said that they weren't the best this year.
2)Proven by their loss to Carmel, they aren't the best in Indiana, which I said.
3)By giving each school their GC's for this year, I'd say that's fact. I may not agree with what happened, but it did, so therefore, it is FACT.
4)Yes, this is an opinion, but I also said that the spectacle is what did it for them IN MY OPINION, like I had previously stated.
5)Everyone I'm sure would agree that this year was not their best year. Put your precious Cali groups up against Clinton '04 or '05. Then we'd see. Or NC '06. We all saw how that went down.
I never said that there weren't any accomplishments here. Burroughs won. Straight up, they won. I can't change it. Congrats to them. I'm just saying that stating Cali is better than the Midwest as a whole is a strong statement and one that is untrue, given statistics. I'm done with this conversation.
While California has some truely impressive groups this year, they have nothing on the Debth that the Midwest has. I'de like to put Burroughs up against some other choirs out here... like Ankeny. Cali has a few great groups (Hart, Chula, Burroughs, Burbank ect.) But look at the great groups out here... Ankeny, Clinton, North Central, Urbandale, Waubonsie, Totino, Mt. Zion, South Jones, Teays Valley, Omaha Westside, and I could go on and on. Sure, Cali won a few great competitions this year. But to say Cali is better than the Midwest all around or that they are all together on top, that is just blasphemy. They are for sure catching up though.
true
the midwest is definately still the "show choir region"
but California and West Coast choirs are coming...... and coming strong.
While California has some truely impressive groups this year, they have nothing on the Debth that the Midwest has. I'de like to put Burroughs up against some other choirs out here... like Ankeny. Cali has a few great groups (Hart, Chula, Burroughs, Burbank ect.) But look at the great groups out here... Ankeny, Clinton, North Central, Urbandale, Waubonsie, Totino, Mt. Zion, South Jones, Teays Valley, Omaha Westside, and I could go on and on. Sure, Cali won a few great competitions this year. But to say Cali is better than the Midwest all around or that they are all together on top, that is just blasphemy. They are for sure catching up though.
To be able to claim that you are the best region in the country, you have to have more than 5 stellar groups. Put Celebration (no disrespect meant) up against Findlay/Sullivan/Waubonsie/FC/ Marysville/ Twinsburg/ any of the Lawrence schools/ Carmel/ Eisenhower/Fairfield/Hurricane/ North Central/Piqua/ Plainfield/the other Midwestern powerhouses and I bet that they would lose to most, if not all, of them. California (as far as I know) has Burroughs, Burbank, Chula, Bonita, and Hart (and Arcadia some years) that do consistantly good. In the Midwest, you have the groups I named above, as well as Center Grove, Mundelein, and all of the rest. I would say that the Midwest has quite a few steps up on California as a whole. And I see that you have put up that Brea has 3 GC's this season. Who have those GC's been against? Given the fact that overall, California doesn't have TOO many powerhouse groups, I wouldn't give that much credit to that statement, but since you want to argue that point: NC has three I believe, CG has a couple, Marysville has several, Fairfield has a couple, Waubonsie has one, Mt. Zion has two I believe, Findlay has a couple, Sullivan has at least one (over a California school nonetheless), so starting a dumb argument like that would be a bad idea on your part. I believe that I am wasting my time with YOU, since you pay no mention to the accolades of the Midwestern groups that you downplay so much. Maybe you should recognize what they do before spouting off that Cali is so much better than the Midwes, as I have seen no evidence that you have given the proper acknowledgement.
i have read this whole post over the past few months and recently you have put that NC Counterpoints isn't in the top 3 slots in indiana
BUT i don't understand why you say this because EARLIER on many of the midwest and Indiana people said that everyone was going to be blown away by Counterpoints and that they are the best if not in Indiana but best in the COUNTRY... now a little contradictory much???
And in the past few post you keep saying this is fact that is fact... honestly ALL of your posts are Opinion. SO i would really watch what you say is fact and what isn't and really get YOUR facts straight because obviously... you don't.
ALSO, Celebration doesn't have a choir this year.... so once again that goes back to not having your so called "facts" straight.
And you say that Burroughs is overrated and they probably shouldn't have won and blah blah blah
You also said that even though they won they arn't as good everyone says they are to be. So beating the top choirs in the country means they arn't good??? Really?
Beating Attache the best choir in the country isn't an accomplishment?? Beating North Central the so called best choir in Indiana isn't an accomplishment??? Beating Waubonise isn't either???
Yeah.... once again.... you might want to get your facts straight.
PS I would love to see all those groups compete it would be a great competition. And also have any of those groups beaten Attache??? JUST wondering.
LOL! you just completely proved to me you have no idea about Cali Shows and why you're apart of the discussion is beyond me haha. I thought it was funny you mention how bonita got 5th Ru in Nashville to the midwest groups, you said it as though they are getting GC at every comp in Cali. the 2 average comps. down here they finished 4th and 6th. They're highest placing was 3rd at a small competition that didnt have chula,burbank,burroughs, hart, Arcadia, etc. You should come to a comp next year POCA, then you will know more about top notch groups out here that you don't know. Diamond Bar, Serrano, Los Al, Carlsbad, Brea Olinda, etc. I also lol'd at you saying Cali only has a few powerhouses. what do you consider a powerhouse? the groups you have heard of from Cali? you have no IDEA of the other top groups out here. oh and FYI you asked who has Brea beaten this year... only Burroughs, Hart, and Arcadia to name a few
I am not putting down the midwest by any means. There are amazing choirs there. Im usually impressed when I see groups there. All im saying is THIS year the Cali groups are on top. Could be totally different next year.
No seriously, can we not?
I won't pretend I've been to competitions in every region, or that I know everything about show choir. What I do know is that for years, there has been a slowly-closing rift between California and the "midwest" about who is the best, and moreover, who is "right" about the proper styles of shows, singing, competitions, judging, etc. It has been this way because of ignorance on both sides, as well as stubborn people who refuse to let go of the conventions of show choir in their respective regions long enough to acknowledge that something great could simultaneously be happening somewhere outside their area.
That gap was FINALLY closing- and then this starts up again. Does this non-debate REALLY matter as much as building a strong national show choir community, rather than continuing to exist as separate entities that occasionally cross paths? No. It doesn't. It just doesn't. Please stop dragging us back from the progress that has been made.
California (as far as I know) has Burroughs, Burbank, Chula, Bonita, and Hart (and Arcadia some years) that do consistantly good.
LOL! you just completely proved to me you have no idea about Cali Shows and why you're apart of the discussion is beyond me haha. I thought it was funny you mention how bonita got 5th Ru in Nashville to the midwest groups, you said it as though they are getting GC at every comp in Cali. the 3 average comps. down here they finished 4th, 5th, and 6th. They're highest placing was 3rd at a small competition that didnt have chula,burbank,burroughs, hart, Arcadia, etc. You should come to a comp next year POCA, then you will know more about top notch groups out here that you don't know. Diamond Bar, Serrano, Los Al, Carlsbad, Brea Olinda, etc. I also lol'd at you saying Cali only has a few powerhouses. what do you consider a powerhouse? the groups you have heard of from Cali? you have no IDEA of the other top groups out here. oh and FYI you asked who has Brea beaten this year... only Burroughs, Hart, and Arcadia to name a few
I am not putting down the midwest by any means. There are amazing choirs there. Im usually impressed when I see groups there. All im saying is THIS year the Cali groups are on top. Could be totally different next year.
First off it was never Cali vs the rest of the country. The discussion was about Indiana being better than Cali this year. SO I don't know where you got all that from. Maybe you were bored, i don't know? Also If you go back and read the posts we were never talking about 2005 or 2004 or 1994 even. we were talking about 2008. I have seen the majority of the groups across the country and for this year California is the deepest. Maybe it was different before and will be different in the future but for RIGHT NOW California has PROVEN to be the best region in the country.
Also, unlike most of you on here I have seen Shows from all regions. I have been to 5 competitions in the midwest over the last 2 years. How many competitions have you been to in CALI pocavvbass10? unless you have been to at least a couple this year than your opinion on the subject is COMPLETELY USELESS. you're going off youtube and frankly what you say has NO MERIT. I would love to discuss this further with people who actually have the knowledge (not youtube) PM me. Otherwise im done with this.
To be able to claim that you are the best region in the country, you have to have more than 5 stellar groups. Put Celebration (no disrespect meant) up against Findlay/Sullivan/Waubonsie/FC/ Marysville/ Twinsburg/ any of the Lawrence schools/ Carmel/ Eisenhower/Fairfield/Hurricane/ North Central/Piqua/ Plainfield/the other Midwestern powerhouses and I bet that they would lose to most, if not all, of them. California (as far as I know) has Burroughs, Burbank, Chula, Bonita, and Hart (and Arcadia some years) that do consistantly good. In the Midwest, you have the groups I named above, as well as Center Grove, Mundelein, and all of the rest. I would say that the Midwest has quite a few steps up on California as a whole. And I see that you have put up that Brea has 3 GC's this season. Who have those GC's been against? Given the fact that overall, California doesn't have TOO many powerhouse groups, I wouldn't give that much credit to that statement, but since you want to argue that point: NC has three I believe, CG has a couple, Marysville has several, Fairfield has a couple, Waubonsie has one, Mt. Zion has two I believe, Findlay has a couple, Sullivan has at least one (over a California school nonetheless), so starting a dumb argument like that would be a bad idea on your part. I believe that I am wasting my time with YOU, since you pay no mention to the accolades of the Midwestern groups that you downplay so much. Maybe you should recognize what they do before spouting off that Cali is so much better than the Midwes, as I have seen no evidence that you have given the proper acknowledgement.
And to add to the history of Cali vs. the rest of the country, Clinton also handled Burroughs in 2005, as well as NC taking care of Burbank, Burroughs, and Chula all at the same competition. Also, last year, Findlay and Greece Athena both finished ahead of the first Cali group at FAME NYC. As for my final history lesson
First off it was never Cali vs the rest of the country. The discussion was about Indiana being better than Cali this year. SO I don't know where you got all that from. Maybe you were bored, i don't know? Also If you go back and read the posts we were never talking about 2005 or 2004 or 1994 even. we were talking about 2008. I have seen the majority of the groups across the country and for this year California is the deepest. Maybe it was different before and will be different in the future but for RIGHT NOW California has PROVEN to be the best region in the country.
Also, unlike most of you on here I have seen Shows from all regions. I have been to 5 competitions in the midwest over the last 2 years. How many competitions have you been to in CALI pocavvbass10? unless you have been to at least a couple this year than your opinion on the subject is COMPLETELY USELESS. Mainly because you probably aren't familiar with many groups out here. You probably aren't familiar with Brea Olinda 3 GC's this season. Or Arcadia who has beaten the likes of Burbank, Burroughs, and Hart plenty of times over the last few years, or Los Alamitos. Frankly if you haven't seen the regions in person multiple times and are simply going off youtube then im wasting my time discussing this with you. All others who have knowledge I would love to talk about this via PM.
And to add to the history of Cali vs. the rest of the country, Clinton also handled Burroughs in 2005, as well as NC taking care of Burbank, Burroughs, and Chula all at the same competition. Also, last year, Findlay and Greece Athena both finished ahead of the first Cali group at FAME NYC. As for my final history lesson, Bonita Vista finished last at SCN in finals, which was dominated by Midwestern groups this year. Also, I agree with Wocttocs in the aspect that Burroughs is overrated this year. Sure, their show is great, but I think the spectacle of the show is what steals the judges' attention and a little less of the singing and dancing (while they do both of those greatly). A couple of years ago, here in WV, there was a choir that did very well, but more so for their concept and the presentation rather than the execution, so I can see the signs of a show that is most impressive because of the spectacle. I honestly believe that without the spectacle of the show, I could see Burroughs getting second or even third at Chicago. Just my two cents though. I realize that people will be upset at the fact that I didn't mention that Burroughs beat Ankeny last year and that Hart beat Clinton (which I have my own opinions about) this year, but I would say that those are two isolated incidents that don't exactly warrant the claim that California-based groups are SO MUCH more dominant than everyone else. I think you should probably get your facts straight and maybe watchsome of the more powerhouse Midwestern, East Coast, and Southern groups before any claim of dominance over the rest of the country. That is all.
FAME Chicago 2008
