we had some mistakes that we need to fix and we will be on top again next week...
what i meant was, we are all going to be practicing and fixing all of the mistakes that we made in our performance at ben davis. i did not mean to offend anyone at all by this statement. sorry.
We are defiantly allowed to do that in Indiana. That is what I do every weekend! We are just not allowed to communicate to anyone onstage, and that is the difference.
I also do want to say that I take offense to the comment about Indiana "taking the art out of everything". Indiana has a rich heritage in the arts, especially show choir. It was practically invented here. Rules at Indiana competitions have developed over MANY years to help make the contest run as smoothly, safely, and FAIRLY as possible. I am not trying to put down NC on what happened, it was unfortunate and could have happened to anyone. I just don't like the fact that people are saying that Indiana is messed up in their system. No things aren't perfect, but "we" have been doing this for a long time now and "we" know what we're doing. I hope you get a chance to come to an Indiana competition and see how well most of them are run.
Now it is your right to state your opinion on how we do things, but it is also mine to defend it!!!!
This was an unfortunate circumstance that occurred to NC this weekend but I do agree with Armondo, any group could have done what NC did. In Iowa, most contests refuse to let anyone onstage or offstage after the show has begun. However, most contests allow a member of the performing choir's entourage to sit at the boards and either advise or run the sound board to help balance the sound. Is this not allowed in Indiana?
Jeffreco, you need to associate yourself with a choir and fill in both your first and last name on our member profile. We do not allow anonymous accounts on SCC.
The rules at this competition are just like everything in life. You have to adjust to the rules, the laws, the way things are. Yes you can push for change, but if the rule is in place and you break it, you will get penalized. And no, the option of sending someone back and forth from the audience wasn't available to all the groups, as some people from other states are implying, they knew the rules and didn't do that. If there is a rule that says you can't have a full gospel choir backstage to help you sing your ballad, are you going to break that just because it "allows you to put your best foot forward". Nope. Because it's against the rules.
As for NC. I love their program. They are a very respectable group and they are handling this very well. They are very classy and just move on. It happened. NC isn't complaining. They're preparing and they're going to do very well this weekend. I wish Counterpoints the best the rest of their season.
so when the sound guy doesn't know how to do his job, everyone should be expected to deal with it?
You would expect a sound guy to do his job, but the sound guy is there to make sure everything is working, not to make sure every group sounds good. It's the choir+band working together that are to make sure that they sound good. It's called rehearsing together and being prepared.
BUT:
A few years ago, the monitors weren't on at ISSMA state (back when it was held at ball state) and the first three choirs just had to deal with it. That WAS the fault of the sound man and None of those choirs placed well.
To prevent that from happening now that it's held at LC, they allow the first group to do vocal warm up on stage as a sound check.
all i can say is .... only in Indiana can you organize and attempt to regulate every aspect of art that you've actually ruined it for most everyone involved. lol
Now THIS is an unusually stupid comment. There were 50 other groups at this contest that managed NOT to get dq'd for breaking this rule, and I'm sure had a great time. I'm not a big fan of the rule, but I hardly agree that "every aspect" of "art" is being regulated here. And what does "only in Indiana" mean? Do you mean that there is some kind of crazy conspiracy in which us Hoosiers are trying to control the show choir idiom for our own evil purposes? What is your point exactly? Do you have one? And is this message somehow less insulting to you if I end it by putting "LOL"?
It isn't just a performance, it is a competition, and all performers should be expected to deal with what is happening onstage by themselves. To do otherwise presents an unfair advantage.
so when the sound guy doesn't know how to do his job, everyone should be expected to deal with it? a director on stage has little to no idea how things sound out in the house... all they mostly hear is their 1st trumpet blaring away or that guitar solo wailing. the better competitions usually have monitors backstage, but that isn't for balance issues so much as to hear solos or help keep tempo.
i agree with tscott earlier -- why wouldn't we allow groups to put their best foot forward? again, nothing was done here that any other group there couldn't have done for themselves.
if this is a rule at your own competition now, i'd start pushing for some changes.
It was extremely unfortunate what happened with North Central, their show was great and I'm sure they probably would have been able to step it up and perform even better in finals. Good luck at your next competitions, you guys will place VERY well.
As for the final placements...
Franklin Central: Another very well deserved GC. You guys flat out out performed most of the groups there. Incredible energy. I'm still a fan of your show design last year, but you guys are performing what you were given VERY well. Congrats.
Dekalb: Your vocals were really good. I thought your tap number was a MESS. There were only like 6 people tapping and it was not clean, at all. And, I felt like it was deja vu from last years show. But vocals were good and the rest of the show was well performed.
Pike: An INCREDIBLE improvement from last weekend. You guys sang with such finesse and you weren't like screaming to prove that you guys can sing. Ojos Asi is becoming one of my favorite parts of your show. Ironically, the only group I had you guys placed in front of was DeKalb. I just wasn't sure how you would measure up vocally to the judges because every other group was vocally strong. Your choreography is sick tho Good luck at LC
Bishop Luers: I personally thought your prelims show as much better than your finals performance. I was blown away by your vocals but your dancing is like...nothing. And when I say nothing, I mean it. If you danced like you do in Jai Ho, you would be head and shoulders above the rest. But really, what is in your water? Because your vocals are ON POINT.
Carrol: I was thoroughly impressed. I knew you guys always have a pretty good group but I did not know what to expect. I thought you guys sounded loud without sounded like you were pushing too hard. The stepping part was amazing and my favorite part. It's gotta be hard to keep rhythm with the whole group like that. My word though, WHAT WERE YOU WEARING?!
Congrats to all groups that performed yesterday! It was a great day for show choir!
As for us,
as much as it sucks to get disqualified for something so small, we all understand and respect that a rule was broken, even though it was only by accident. We accept our disqualification, and are happy at least that people enjoyed our show. Entertaining people is more important than winning.
Im very proud of and happy for FC, their show is fantastic. Believe me we all look forward to thier competition next week.
all i can say is .... only in Indiana can you organize and attempt to regulate every aspect of art that you've actually ruined it for most everyone involved. lol
For years now most every competition, in Indiana at least, anyone communicating from the sage to the audience results in a disqualification, or such a high point deduction that you are basically taken out of the running for finals. Any communication whether it be someone directing from off stage, wireless headsets being used, or apparently in this case someone going from off stage onto the stage to correct the sound levels of the band.
The competition system is supposed to be about how well you can perform, and a part of that is training your performers and band to know how to balance and adjust to different sound systems and venues. Most everyone will have some band/choir balance issues with their first performance, and after that groups use the tapes, score sheets, and any one of their observers to help correct those issues for the night show, if they make it.
This rule must have been in their rule sheet, like it is at most all competitions, so they knew what the repercussions were going into the competition. If they did break this rule, which I don't know that they did, it would be unfair for them to NOT disqualify them for breaking the rule.
I just wanted to post this to hopefully help clear up all of those people questioning why a group would be DQ'ed for this. It is something that has been in place as a rule for a VERY long time and most competitions.
Okay... someone please express their opinion. Did WC deserve a spot in finals, or am I just being bias? THey had an awesome show. Their scores are CRAZY inconsistant from last week to this week, but this week was such a better show.
Am I being bias? I do not think I am, but I would like to see some opinions.
I've heard that in general that Ben Davis scores were low. I heard from someone in Carroll that there was a large difference between DeKalb's state qualifying scores and Ben Davis's qualifying scores. So it probably wasn't just Warren Central that had low scores, it was everybody. Personally, I never have heard too much about Warren Central, nor have I ever seen them, and I don't have access to sheets, so I can't say if the scores were out of line.
QUOTE
i still don't see what the problem is here. what advantage is gained when the same opportunity is available to every other competing group? sounds to me like, "we didn't think of that first, so let's call it improper..."
No, it seems improper no matter who did it first. Maybe I just have an odd point of view on this matter, but to me, there is a clear line between having somebody available backstage simply to listen to and change sound as needed, and having somebody in the audience come backstage to tell them what needs to be changed. Once the performance starts, nobody should enter the performing area, including backstage, and nobody should leave the performing area, with emergencies obviously excepted. It isn't just a performance, it is a competition, and all performers should be expected to deal with what is happening onstage by themselves. To do otherwise presents an unfair advantage.
why in the world would a director be in the house and then go backstage? That's an obvious no-no, rules or no rules... To communicate with the band to change an aspect of the performance during a performance is, I would think, an obvious line to not cross, especially to a director.
i still don't see what the problem is here. what advantage is gained when the same opportunity is available to every other competing group? sounds to me like, "we didn't think of that first, so let's call it improper..."
Okay... someone please express their opinion. Did WC deserve a spot in finals, or am I just being bias? THey had an awesome show. Their scores are CRAZY inconsistant from last week to this week, but this week was such a better show.
Am I being bias? I do not think I am, but I would like to see some opinions.
went to the finals last night, I'm a few (cough cough) years older and went with some friends to see the groups and cheer on FC as a proud alum. FC has always been a top notch group but I LOVE the direction the group has been going in the last few years. Great vocals, clean as always, taking risks and pushing to be better. Had some GREAT performers as well, some standout girls on the floor especially caught my eye. Kudos to you all for a well deserved sweep great work to your group, directors and Damon.
Other thoughts...It's been a few years since I've seen Bishop Luers, but I would have never put the group as a contender in my years seeing/being in show choir. you all surprised me to no end!!!!! WHERE did that come from? Clean fun choreo, great vocals, different show, and that guys number and closer?? LOVED it. I was very impressed. Thought it should have been a race for Grand Champion for you and FC. Congrats on a great performance, you all were very entertaining and the audience was glued to you and FC the entire show. Didn't get to see Pike so I don't know if the placings are that accurate in my opinion, but I would have you above Dekalb by a mile.
Either way, congrats to all the groups for a great night and for performing your faces off!
ps North Central I was dying to see you and you weren't there for finals, really sad about whatever happened but looking forward to seeing the show next week at FC.
Ben Davis Giant Spectacular 2010
a director on stage has little to no idea how things sound out in the house... all they mostly hear is their 1st trumpet blaring away or that guitar solo wailing. the better competitions usually have monitors backstage, but that isn't for balance issues so much as to hear solos or help keep tempo.
Good luck at LC