Rating posts down does not "bury" them. There are some sites which hide or even remove posts with very low ratings. SCC does not. It is merely an indicator of the way people feel about a particular post. You may simply ignore it if you wish. That being said, I do admit that this topic has started to look a little like a Christmas tree lately. It's obvious that people are having a strong reaction to this event, however, and this forum was designed to be an outlet for people to speak their minds. I am reading the posts and making sure everyone stays within reasonable guidelines.
As far as Finale is concerned, I was there and I feel as seemingly in the dark as many others do. I was witness to both good and bad things that happened. Unfortunately, I was given different stories by just about everyone I spoke with - including Finale staff - and we may never know what the reality of the situation was. I do know that many groups did not get many things they were promised, some of which affected them on a financial level fairly severely . I also spoke with multiple judges personally who were only there for the kids because they were not being compensated for their service. I can only imagine how difficult it is to run a competition, but these kinds of things are unacceptable regardless of what transpired.
I think that one of the biggest issues was just a total breakdown of communication. That some choirs did not even know of major changes to the event until they were in New York without hotel rooms is not okay.
It's pretty evident that a lack of money was the root of the problem. What happened to the funds or if there was even enough to begin with is not clear. However, even if the event organizers were not directly responsible for the loss of the money, there is a management issue here. It's how you react to the situation and deal with it that defines your ability to lead. And while the event did end up taking place, it did so by the skin of its teeth - and largely thanks to the judges, tech crews, and other volunteers who worked their tails off for the better part of this 19-hour marathon. I know the outside world saw a live feed that looked fairly impressive, and besides the total lack of a stage, mostly structured. It may be difficult to understand why there is so much upset and emotion being expressed on the forums. But when things get to this point - regardless of who was at fault - it does need to be discussed; if nothing else so that other groups can be informed and protected in the future.
Speaking of the climbing stairs, sorry about the escalators having to be fixed. I think when one stops, it messes up the rest, cause Matoaca definitely accidentally messed up the very bottom one, and then all of them were being fixed, like, the next day... Our bad.
To be fair, the bottom set of escalators were way different, and she didn't know her heel was gonna get caught in it.
Hello all! First post, but, I felt I had something to add to the discussion.
First off, being the student who was kind of in charge of Clover Hill's band this year, I would just like to say thank you to all the positive comments we got about the band from everyone on these forums. I've been in the band 4 years now and this was definitely the most fun show I have ever played.
Second off, on the topic of the whole drama surrounding Finale Nationals. This forum, in my opinion (which I should add by no means reflects the views of Clover Hill as a whole), has turned into almost a McCarthyism-esc attack on not only the competition itself, but on Antwon's character as well. I hope I can address a few things I feel have been glossed over.
There have been rumors swirling around of embezzlement, and questions of where has the money gone and why no one was arrested for it. From what I've heard, the money was taken by Antwon's business partner, the CFO of Mind's Eye Conceptions, in the amount of around five-hundred thousand dollars. I know not whether this figure is exact, nor whether it is completely true, nor when exactly the money went missing, but the reason it supposedly took so long in catching was that Antwon supposed that it was actually being spent on the things it was supposed to have been spent on, such as hotels, and meals, and broadway tickets. True, it was probably irresponsible for Antwon to hide this from the directors for so long, but when you dream of hosting the best national show choir competition and have a chance at making it a reality, you don't want to give up that dream, you want to do your best to try and pull it off in the end, even at your own expense. Some of the changes that were made were because it was either those changes were to be made or there was to be no competition. Radio City Music Hall got taken, that was out of Antwon's control. So, he did the next best thing and booked the Hammerstein Ballroom for two nights of competition, though without consulting the directors, which was inside his control. At 30,000$ a day however, and half a million gone from the bank accounts, it seems foolish to attack Antwon for the change in schedule to one day instead of two. Most of the other comments in the post by "finale fail" can be accounted for due to this loss of funds. Had this embezzlement not happened, it probably would have been a wonderful two days of competition. I am going to hold off on saying he did the best he did with what he had until news of an arrest is confirmed, but, what would you have rather had as a director or student, meat balls for the price of filet mignon, or a note saying that they were out of meat and couldn't offer a refund at this time?
I truly hope that Antwon is able to get some if not all the money back. If/when he does, I can only hope that he would reimburse those who had a... less then pleasurable experience. Not doing so would be irresponsible to say the least. I can also only hope that he has enough after that to pay off the debts he accumulated on his own dime to scrape together an actual competition.
One gripe I did have was his lack of acknowledgement to the Medina stage crew. Back stage I was able to chat with some of the people back there, and they sacrificed their trip to make this happen. They also saved a couple of our dancers from being seriously injured, I don't know who saw this but in New Dimensions opener the tie down strap for our top riser slipped, and the riser slipped off the side for a second or so before four or five crew members rushed over and held that riser in place for the rest of the show. On behalf of Clover Hill, I thank you for that.
When it comes to his treatment of his own individual choirs, that is an issue between you, your choral director, and him. I don't think that this forum is the place to complain about how he choreographs or judges your individual choir.
YES! i know! Only a few people at a time could go in the elevators so I usually took the stairs! I felt so out of shape! By the time I got the third floor I was already breathless! hahaha silly silly me!
i thought those stairs were going to be the death of me haha
YES! i know! Only a few people at a time could go in the elevators so I usually took the stairs! I felt so out of shape! By the time I got the third floor I was already breathless! hahaha silly silly me!
I wish that the sound crew would have worked this tirelessly Friday night. The women's choir from my school, for which I play in the band, didn't have anything coming through the monitors until about halfway through their set when a man walked right up the side of the stage laying cables. It wasn't until our second number that they even started to hook up mics into the piano. Then during the show, we had the clicky noises of mics being turned on. It provided a very negative experience when crew members began asking questions of our band members while we were performing. When our choir arrived, they were nowhere near ready to host a contest as we had to wait outside for an hour after they had told us we could arrive until we were able to even get into the building leaving us with only 15 minutes until our warm up was to begin. And that includes the time it took to climb seven flights of stairs. I hope that the other choirs had a better experience than we had on Saturday.
Oh yes, those stairs were never ending! ahh, gaar i'm sorry about that! Yea they were just setting up the stage friday..a little late set up...
You are right that I should not judge a complete choir by the comments of just a couple of members. I will fiercely defend my crew and the tireless efforts of the production manager, sound, lights and backstage managers and former Encore members that came to this competition worked endlessly without so much as a nod from Antwon. That is inexcusable and I would tell you to get a little gut check as if it were your people that endured everything that ours did, I believe you would be posting something quite different.
We had a blast in NYC not because of this competition but in spite of it!
Ahh so much negatives! on a good note I would also like to thank alllll tech!!!!! No matter what school you were from! Without all of those tech crews this competition would have been a disaster! So...THANK YOU TECH!!!!!!!!!! I was there....friday? i think..helping set up the stage and load props onto the stage. It was so much work and most people in tech stayed all day friday AND saturday, so once again THANK YOU!!!
I wish that the sound crew would have worked this tirelessly Friday night. The women's choir from my school, for which I play in the band, didn't have anything coming through the monitors until about halfway through their set when a man walked right up the side of the stage laying cables. It wasn't until our second number that they even started to hook up mics into the piano. Then during the show, we had the clicky noises of mics being turned on. It provided a very negative experience when crew members began asking questions of our band members while we were performing. When our choir arrived, they were nowhere near ready to host a contest as we had to wait outside for an hour after they had told us we could arrive until we were able to even get into the building leaving us with only 15 minutes until our warm up was to begin. And that includes the time it took to climb seven flights of stairs. I hope that the other choirs had a better experience than we had on Saturday.
What does any of that have to do with Finale? If you have a problem with the way Antwon treats your group then take that up with your choir. But to publicly bash him in a Finale forum for something that wasn't even his fault is unarguably inexcusable...
Dear Clover Hill, I applaud your defense for your choreographer but you must be able to agree with things as well. Personally I could question his character not only because of this comp, but how he treats most of his choirs. I could question the repeating choreo from every year (Every can tell an Antwon group..sometimes good...sometimes pathetic)...I could question the way he yells at his kids and tells them where they stand with his other choirs (usually negative). I could question how he doesn't appear at promised rehearsals or come on the bus with our group and many others at least. No! I dont question those, He is a busy man I get it. What I will always question is how he mistreat Medina's crew and the vollunteers who in all honesty worked harder than him at the competition. No acknowledgment of any kind..no thank you...no nothing..check that he did do something..he blamed them for things they couldn't help. So yes Clover Hill I can question his character..but not on the things you think I would.
Don't put a whole choir under the bus because of the posts of one or two people.
Dear Clover Hill, I applaud your defense for your choreographer but you must be able to agree with things as well. Personally I could question his character not only because of this comp, but how he treats most of his choirs. I could question the repeating choreo from every year (Every can tell an Antwon group..sometimes good...sometimes pathetic)...I could question the way he yells at his kids and tells them where they stand with his other choirs (usually negative). I could question how he doesn't appear at promised rehearsals or come on the bus with our group and many others at least. No! I dont question those, He is a busy man I get it. What I will always question is how he mistreat Medina's crew and the vollunteers who in all honesty worked harder than him at the competition. No acknowledgment of any kind..no thank you...no nothing..check that he did do something..he blamed them for things they couldn't help. So yes Clover Hill I can question his character..but not on the things you think I would.
What does any of that have to do with Finale? If you have a problem with the way Antwon treats your group then take that up with your choir. But to publicly bash him in a Finale forum for something that wasn't even his fault is unarguably inexcusable...
Dear Clover Hill, I applaud your defense for your choreographer but you must be able to agree with things as well. Personally I could question his character not only because of this comp, but how he treats most of his choirs. I could question the repeating choreo from every year (Every can tell an Antwon group..sometimes good...sometimes pathetic)...I could question the way he yells at his kids and tells them where they stand with his other choirs (usually negative). I could question how he doesn't appear at promised rehearsals or come on the bus with our group and many others at least. No! I dont question those, He is a busy man I get it. What I will always question is how he mistreat Medina's crew and the vollunteers who in all honesty worked harder than him at the competition. No acknowledgment of any kind..no thank you...no nothing..check that he did do something..he blamed them for things they couldn't help. So yes Clover Hill I can question his character..but not on the things you think I would.
feel free to obnoxiously "thumbs down" this post to try to bury the opinion of anyone's but your own, but i just want to say what i have to say.
i think we all realize at this point that there were a lot of aspects of the competition that were promised that weren't delivered. but i think it's immature and extremely uncalledfor to try to portray antwon as a crook just because of happenings that were out of his control. clearly, as mentioned before, there was a significant embezzlement that took place between antwon and his administration, but since no one out side of antwon and his administration truly knows the scale of how much said partner financially exploited him, no one has any right to make any assumptions about antwon's character.
he very well could have canceled the entire competition and disappointed thousands of people. but then none of these kids would have gotten to see the most alive city in america. none of these choirs would've gotten to meet eachother and interact with some of the best choirs from all over the nation. personally, i thought it was a step in the right direction for a national competition, and clearly there's things that need to be ironed out, but im confident that they will be.
and bring on the dislikes...
feel free to obnoxiously "thumbs down" this post to try to bury the opinion of anyone's but your own, but i just want to say what i have to say.
i think we all realize at this point that there were a lot of aspects of the competition that were promised that weren't delivered. but i think it's immature and extremely uncalledfor to try to portray antwon as a crook just because of happenings that were out of his control. clearly, as mentioned before, there was a significant embezzlement that took place between antwon and his administration, but since no one out side of antwon and his administration truly knows the scale of how much said partner financially exploited him, no one has any right to make any assumptions about antwon's character.
he very well could have canceled the entire competition and disappointed thousands of people. but then none of these kids would have gotten to see the most alive city in america. none of these choirs would've gotten to meet eachother and interact with some of the best choirs from all over the nation. personally, i thought it was a step in the right direction for a national competition, and clearly there's things that need to be ironed out, but im confident that they will be.
and bring on the dislikes...
Finale Nationals 2011
