Just to clear things up, Northrop would have been in first no matter what. I saw the scores before the penalty and Northrop did indeed win it straight up. Center grove would have finished in second.
Wow I was so confused as to how CG got last. But as I read, it became clear. This is a hugely unfair and sad thing that happened. However, rules are rules & like a member said, if you don't like them don't go. However, no one can predict the mishaps that occur during competitions.
With the adrenaline, excitement & rushing off stage who knows what can happen. I believe CS decided one yr not to use the lights for our back drop b/c not all of them showed. We also almost received a time penalty so that change assisted us (altho there wasn't a time penalty for finals).
I am happy for all the choirs that performed but or me I would NOT have wanted to win by default. Thats stupid to me. Its the same way i felt when running track, i didn't want to win the race b/c my competitor false started & thus was disqualified. That takes a way from the win.
Northrop is an amazing group & I know they are happy but would probably be happier with a legitimate win.
CG I have been a fan since I can remember, CG & CS have a great relationship & We always enjoyed watching your shows. You sing well & have amazing dance technique. You also have elaborate show sets & maybe this issue will show u that it may be better to be simple. I Know debtones doesn't always have a set maybe u can be similar.
QUOTE (juliofrommississippi @ Jan 29 2012, 05:45 PM)
I'm personally not a fan of the no-change-rule in finals. When I was in show choir (and other times, even this year) my alma mater has changed around song placements, ballads, openers, closers. You are SUPPOSED to make changes before finals- that's what the judges want to see! If your show is not working right CHANGE IT.
I do understand why competitions choose to implement this rule. If you make changes, and they are disastrous, I could see why a competition would say, you should've done that show in day round so we could've seen it, and given your spot to a more deserving group... etc.
However not all competitions use this rule. I can think of a few: Milton, Muscatine, Mt. Pleasant, and Great River are all times I have seen this rule implemented. I know Mo-Show does not use this rule. I also am pretty sure Urbandale does not use this, as back in the 90s Jefferson used to do a completely different show at night.
I personally think this rule is silly. But it's a competition's choice to have the rule or not. It's very possible to find competitions that allow changes, and in our past cases, we have checked and made sure these competitions allow such changes in order to not have such disqualifications. You just have to be smart about what competitions you go to. Same thing goes with time penalties. Competitions do it- if you don't like it, DON'T GO!
AGREED.
Show Choir competitions should not just be huge fundraisers or ego-boosts for blood thirsty directors. They should be an educational experience for ALL involved. Not allowing significant changes to a show from prelims to finals is just absurd. Honestly, I don't even care if a group showed up and had two different shows from prelims to finals... how is that unfair? If they have spent the time to practice two sets, why should it not be allowed?
Some of these Indiana groups should really try coming out to some Iowa competitions. We'd love to have you.
With the safety risk and potential for another time penalty Center Grove decided it was best for all parties not to include the back drop in the finals show.
Safety is one thing, not risking a penalty is quite another. Did CG decide this on their own? Were the officials alerted that CG had a safety concern?
I'm personally not a fan of the no-change-rule in finals. When I was in show choir (and other times, even this year) my alma mater has changed around song placements, ballads, openers, closers. You are SUPPOSED to make changes before finals- that's what the judges want to see! If your show is not working right CHANGE IT.
I do understand why competitions choose to implement this rule. If you make changes, and they are disastrous, I could see why a competition would say, you should've done that show in day round so we could've seen it, and given your spot to a more deserving group... etc.
However not all competitions use this rule. I can think of a few: Milton, Muscatine, Mt. Pleasant, and Great River are all times I have seen this rule implemented. I know Mo-Show does not use this rule. I also am pretty sure Urbandale does not use this, as back in the 90s Jefferson used to do a completely different show at night.
I personally think this rule is silly. But it's a competition's choice to have the rule or not. It's very possible to find competitions that allow changes, and in our past cases, we have checked and made sure these competitions allow such changes in order to not have such disqualifications. You just have to be smart about what competitions you go to. Same thing goes with time penalties. Competitions do it- if you don't like it, DON'T GO!
In the long run, it's just a show choir competition. Center Grove has plenty more chances to win, and I'm positive they will. They're an extremely talented group, and they just had a bit of bad luck yesterday. I would hate to be in that situation they were in.
I think this has kind of already been said but I will go into a little more detail.
Center Grove was penalized 85 points during the day resulting in not making finals, although without the penalty they were in first with I believe a double digit lead. After score sheets were gone over Center Grove had been incorrectly penalized an extra 5 points than they should have been. The result being that they were penalized 80 points and were in third with this penalty making them finals eligible.
As for the set piece, during the frantic tear down of the set one of the hinges that kept the top piece together broke off.
And for finals, in the last couple of years I can't remember Churubusco timing finals but that was the ruling for that evening. With the safety risk and potential for another time penalty Center Grove decided it was best for all parties not to include the back drop in the finals show.
While I am fully aware of the rules of this event and how changing your show from day to night is an automatic disqualification I disagree with the ruling. I have always interpreted this rule as changing a significant part of the actual show (changing order of numbers, removing bad numbers, or having a completely different show) not removing a prop in this case a backdrop. That being said it was not my call and we must respect those that judged them.
I am very proud of the way Center Grove performed this weekend. While the day show was great, the night show was that much better. From what I saw most of the group handled themselves quite maturely during the crazy back and forth day. It is unfortunate that you were penalized for something out of your control. Keep your head up. Stay positive. Be proud Center Grove!
On another note, Congrats to all groups that performed!!! Really enjoyed being able to actually watch what we were competing against now that I am an alumni.
CG asked for the exemption that let them into the night show, but the officials from Busco allowed it. That isn't CG's fault...and maybe I am confused, but from what I remember from this competition and what has been said here, the rules were followed in finals: the rule says the show can't be different, the officials decided that no set qualified as a difference between shows, and the prescribed result of that violation is last place in finals. That happened. Did another rule issue come up that hasn't been discussed yet?
Congrats to everyone that competed yesterday it was a fun and very interesting day!! In regards to Center groves placement they shouldn't even been in finals. They had time penalty placing them out of finals. After Center grove was let back in finals the rules again where not followed. Why compete if you can't follow the rules. The rules are there for a reason and may choirs have been put in CGs same place Mt zion at Onalaska. I don't now if I would have put them in last place automatically but some sourt of deduction should been m
That's really, really unfortunate. Methinks that the 'no changes' rule needs to be amended. There's a difference between cutting a "bad" number to try to raise placement in the night show and not using a set due to safety issues.
Even then... one of the reason for finals is to improve your show from day to night. I can think of many times a critique judge would think "i'd love these two songs flipped around for the flow of the show" or something similar. I think it is a silly rule to dock for any of that but especially a judgement call on what could be a safety issue.
And if they WANTED to be technical couldn't they dock a group that doesn't get all tamborines (for example) onto stage for finals if they were all on during day?? ;)
That's really, really unfortunate. Methinks that the 'no changes' rule needs to be amended. There's a difference between cutting a "bad" number to try to raise placement in the night show and not using a set due to safety issues.
^Your statement is almost completely accurate, Sound System's backdrop broke during tear down in their day show, chose not to use it in the night due to timing issues and what I could possibly been a safety issue had the set broken again. This automatically placed us in last even though we won in points and won both captions before the disqualification. I am in no way ragging on any groups, congratulations to everybody for their placements.
Center Grove got a 90 point penalty in day round, mostly due to set issues. They were not supposed to perform in finals, but somehow got the penalty bumped down to 75 points and then the competition added them as the 6th group to finals. Since they had so many set issues they decided to just not use their set for finals. I guess that is against the rules (assuming changing the show from day to night??? idk about this.) and anyway that automatically put them in last place.
Churubusco Show Choir Invitational 2012
