I do not believe they should have won. I agree with putting FC Singers and Pike above NC for this competition. I am kind of shocked that NC was placed 1st for the prelims, especially since one judge placed them as 4th for prelims. I was disappointed by NC's show. Congrats Pike and FC Singers.
Is this really correct for the prelim rankings? Just want to make sure this is what everyone is referring to as the prelim rankings.
Yes, those are the prelim rankings.
As for the "inappropriate" choreography... I was not there, so I cannot make a personal judgement. I'm only going off of what my dad told me.
And as for Pike's show... the judges thought they deserved the win, so they got it. I couldn't be more proud of them. We were all shocked when NC didn't win (including me) but can't we just let Pike have their moment? Gosh, I wish some people on this forum could say something nice for a change.
i think that one big thing that may make it seem like pike's show was less than the others was that they had like 10 less people than the next smallest choir in finals. with 34 people, pike sang and danced their hearts out. and with a smaller group, more people are exposed, making it harder to make the choreography look clean. pikes choreography was flawless both in prelims and finals, and while their vocals were off in prelims, they definitely stepped it up and performed and sounded like a choir of 45, when they are only a choir of 34.
Yes, and that is the only reason i'm questioning the scores...
We all how know it goes with that scoresheet...
Also, i had the same comment as you (doesn'tmatter), that we (students, anyone without a degree in music) has no right to give critique.
I was overwhelmingly opposed publicly in this view and therefore feel justified in saying what i've said about this competition.
ISSMA's sheet is built around execution and difficulty of the selections. That's why i'd still like to see the scores, because apparently i missed something in pike's show that caused me to have them pretty low in my predictions.
Quote from the scoresheet used at this competition -
"Each of subcaptions below are evaluated based on the criterion reference chart on the back of this sheet. Understand that WHAT is being performed is evaluated at the same time as HOW it is being performed. Therefore, since achievement is what a judge is to determine, it must be understood that the evaluation of construction and content of the program, in combination with the evaluation of the demonstrated performance level is what determines the degree of achievement. It is impossible to properly evaluate one of these elements without considering the other."
Even that quote, i have an issue with.
If you look at the sheet, it is pretty much a 50/50 split of Execution and Selection.
My issue, is that 50 percent of what is on the sheet, has nothing to do with what the performers on stage are doing, but the work that took place in a director's office months earlier.
Also, if content is so important, how did the much less difficult Pike show win out over the (in my opinion) more difficult shows of North Central and Franklin Central.
Vocal Sheet: 60 % of total
Technique: 100 pts
tone quality
breath support/control
projection
blend
balance
intonation
diction
vowel uniformity
rhythmic cohesiveness
Artistry: 100 pts
dynamics
style/idiomatic interpretation
phrasing
expression
variety
pacing
tempo
balance with accomp.
inter-relationship with visual elements and accom
Visual Sheet 40% of total score:
Technique:
alignment and spacing
body carriage and control
posture
equip/prop control
movement uniformity
dance fundamentals
recovery
Artistry:
style/idiomatic interpretation
facial expression/communication
characterization
variety
pacing
tempo
costuming and staging
inter-relationship with musical elements.
I would argue that these indicators:
On the vocal sheet -
Dynamics
style/idiomatic interp
phrasing
variety
pacing
tempo
balance with accomp
and inter-relationship with visual
On the visual sheet -
Style/idiomatic interpretation
variety
pacing
tempo
costuming and staging
and
inter relationship with musical elements
Are determining outcomes reflecting the director's work only.
well i think we all are glad the judges are trained professionals in their field and know what they are doing. obviously they have done this job before and know what they want and dont want to see and they score accordingly.
EDIT: sorry if that sounds mean or sarcastic...but i dont feel like anyone without the experience and knowledge of the judges has any right to question their scores. i have felt the same way every year even when pike hasnt done as well as i thought we should have.
Ok, i forgot to put this in as well... In my opinion, pike's show didn't have the technical difficulty to even score well on the ISSMA sheet... From what i saw (and have rewatched on video from prelims) A poorly performed show by the FC Singers, with that set should have won out over the most perfect show pike could have with theirs.
Like i said... I personally thought NC would win, But in my opinion FC and Warren were the 2 contenders for 2nd and 3rd. I thought FC's choreo scores would be higher than warren's but warren's vocals would score higher and they might topple FC to 3rd.
I just thought that if NC bombed, FC would be the only choir worthy of a GC.
Other than NC, FC was most definitely the most impressive choir there on saturday. Their polish, attitude, energy, show design, and performance was just top notch.
for the past ten or so years, cp has always learned their show choir set starting second semester. when show choir is over and done with, we learn the bulk of our concert choir stuff. we occasionally start learning at least one piece we take to concert choir first semester, but most of what we compete with is worked on during second semester.
Yeah, it has been like this for a long long time.
NC had to have just been dead tired...
Their day show wasn't the cleanest thing out there, but they had the energy, show design, and technical difficulty to make every choir that performed before them look like amateurs.
As far as their "inappropriate" choreo... There were a FEW times, when i thought "Oh lord, the parents aren't going to like that at all". Lifts were the girls showed nearly all of what was underneath their costumes. I personally thought that it was about time a choir performed a show with truly "appropriate to the selection" choreography.
I'm sorry that people aren't used to seeing it in show choir, but it's only because people have been too afraid to step that far out before. There is nothing sexual or suggestive about the choreography, but there are a few moments in which you do think to yourself "wow if i was that chick i would not be happy about how much ppl are seeing right now" Then again, NC has hotter females than any choir i've ever seen this year, so... who knows what the thought on that is.
Sex appeal is not non existent in high school, or the programs that 90 percent of high school students are exposed to every day. Saying that their choreography is inappropriate, then turning on the tv and watching anything on MTV is just down right hypocritical.
This show is definitely not for mormons, but it is not raunchy.
agreed. though (please someone from CP inform me) didnt CP use to start working on their show earlier and work their concert set too? or is that just some rumor i heard sometime? or just something that has changed over the years?
for the past ten or so years, cp has always learned their show choir set starting second semester. when show choir is over and done with, we learn the bulk of our concert choir stuff. we occasionally start learning at least one piece we take to concert choir first semester, but most of what we compete with is worked on during second semester.
CP were invited to the NEA Foundation's 40th aniversary Dinner, all expenses paid, 5-star hotel and $94 for every person involved in the choir, for them to perform at the Dinner in Washington DC. They Spent a long time preparing for that, and had to do other songs for the show, so they had to wait to finish the set.
I was actually just discussing this the other day with someone about North Central and talked about how they start learning their show about a month up to their first competion? Or something really close like that, which just suprises me cause if they started earlier think of how much more amazing they can come out to be!
I am sure they will bring it hard the next few comps. Should be the group to keep an eye on.
I was actually just discussing this the other day with someone about North Central and talked about how they start learning their show about a month up to their first competion? Or something really close like that, which just suprises me cause if they started earlier think of how much more amazing they can come out to be!
I am sure they will bring it hard the next few comps. Should be the group to keep an eye on.
agreed. though (please someone from CP inform me) didnt CP use to start working on their show earlier and work their concert set too? or is that just some rumor i heard sometime? or just something that has changed over the years?
i find it hard to believe that NC waited that long to learn those key elements to their show. it just isnt Woody, Wiehe, or CP's style.
I was actually just discussing this the other day with someone about North Central and talked about how they start learning their show about a month up to their first competion? Or something really close like that, which just suprises me cause if they started earlier think of how much more amazing they can come out to be!
I am sure they will bring it hard the next few comps. Should be the group to keep an eye on.
i can only think of two or three moves in CP's show that could be considered "inappropriate"...
if you wanna see raunchy, watch castle's show, just sayin'...
i'm not trying to be mean, i was just surprised by the sexual nature of some of the moves... i mean, come on...
Um...excuse me? Sure, we tend to have some fun with our choreography, but I would not call our show raunchy. thank you very much.
The Counterpoints actually have a history of learning show components at the last minute (ex. "Get On Your Feet" right before FAME Chicago last year, the Michael Jackson/James Brown before Center Grove 2 years ago).
Although I'm pretty sure chloerocksthestage isn't a member of CP, her information is accurate concerning the ballad and several elements of the tap.
Ben Davis Giant Spectacular 2009
