i think that one big thing that may make it seem like pike's show was less than the others was that they had like 10 less people than the next smallest choir in finals. with 34 people, pike sang and danced their hearts out. and with a smaller group, more people are exposed, making it harder to make the choreography look clean. pikes choreography was flawless both in prelims and finals, and while their vocals were off in prelims, they definitely stepped it up and performed and sounded like a choir of 45, when they are only a choir of 34.
well i think we all are glad the judges are trained professionals in their field and know what they are doing. obviously they have done this job before and know what they want and dont want to see and they score accordingly.
I agree, to an extent, JR, But the discrepancy between two judges scores, shows how subjective scoring can really be. A fourth from one judge and a second from another based on the same performance demonstrates this rather well.
That being said, I do think that NC's performance wasn't as strong as our prelim performance, and that both FC and Pike did very well, and their win's were well deserved and congratulations to the both of them. It was a very good competition, and I for one, feel that the results are fair and that we just need to crack down and be ready for the next one.
it was a really close competition - i believe (i'm not quite sure if these are dead on correct) that nc was second vocally by 1/10 of a point, and were three or so points behind pike visually. we got absolutely torpedoed by two judges, who i think put us in fourth place both vocally and visually. we definitely have some work to do, but everyone is looking forward to the rest of the season!
anyways! it was a really great competition - and congrats to pike! i didn't get to see you guys this weekend, but last week at warren i was in awe of your show. it was so much fun and SO clean! a well deserved win. can't wait to see you guys again at state!
and also - BEN DAVIS! i love your set this year, and it seemed like you guys added and changed around a bunch of stuff from the warren comp. it all looked awesome, and ya'll were great hosts! thanks for hosting a great competition!
Also, remember many judges are “of a certain age”. Sometimes they are turned off by costumes or dance moves that 17 and 18 year olds think are awesome. It is a risk to be different. You have to know that going in.
I agree. Also, I think the issue with moves being too provocative is not necessarily the moves themselves, but the people doing the moves. The judges are typically 30+ years old and watching a 15 year old shake their butt and grind with their dance partner, just doesn't sit right with them. There is a lot of debate on the oversexualization of youth in media, and I think sometimes seeing it in person is a bit much for the judges.
That being said, I didn't see anything at Ben Davis this weekend that I would have qualified at too racy. I, personally, just want choreography to be clean (clean as in sharp and well-performed) and fit with the songs.
Wow! Interesting comments on this thread. A lot of what you are all debating are topics that have been debated for a long long time in show choir. No matter the score sheets, show choir scoring is somewhat subjective. You could have 2 panels of reputable judges scoring the same show and could EASILY come out with two different results. It is not like you can count how many times the ball went through the basket and crown an obvious winner.
Because it is subjective, there is a lot of calculating that goes into putting a show together. Will you get a choreo judge that appreciates originality, difficulty, or clean performance most? Who knows! I have watched groups that danced their shoes off get picked off by groups that have very clean but all arms choreo. (Not implying anything in this comp. Just stating fact)
Also, remember many judges are “of a certain age”. Sometimes they are turned off by costumes or dance moves that 17 and 18 year olds think are awesome. It is a risk to be different. You have to know that going in.
I personally always felt that show choir scoring should be more like gymnastics (also subjective scoring) You should throw out the high and low scores and you would likely get less bias (i.e. I don’t like that song, that choreo was too suggestive, the skirts were too short…whatever).
Such is show choir. No one can doubt that all the groups, especially the top three, were outstanding! It is kind of fun to see someone different get the GC ranking. Makes it all exciting.
Remember, there is always next week...new opportunities and new judges to impress.
From what i saw (and have rewatched on video from prelims) A poorly performed show by the FC Singers, with that set should have won out over the most perfect show pike could have with theirs.
WOW!
I know that I may have been a little rude when I said that I didn't care for North Central's show, but wow. To say that a group could do awful and beat someone who performed their show perfectly. I'm certain that technical difficulty isn't 50%+ of the ISSMA score sheet...I think perhaps singing, dancing, and cleanliness counts for SOMETHING.
But I may be wrong, who knows. Maybe show choir changed a TON since I've been gone.
(And no, I'm not saying that because Pike was my group, had the same thing been aimed towards Dekalb or Warren or something, I would have responded the same.)
Ben Davis Giant Spectacular 2009
