I'm new to the show choir scene this year. First of all I want to say that the kids in show choir are the most respectful, fun, creative, productive individuals I've ever had the pleasure of being around. Hats off to each and every one of you. You may not realize it, but the life lessons you will be taking with you from your show choir experience will make you exceptional individuals. Show choir is truly a labor of love, and its rewards have been overwhelming in everyway. I am officially a show choir fan and junky!
While I'm newby in the show choir arena, I've been involved in "subjective" activies for over eight years, specifically cheerleading and gymnastics. The words arbitrary and capricious are certainly not new to my vocabulary. What I have had struggled with in show choir is what I'll term the "opinion" factor. Some of my favorite performances have been from groups who didn't get chosen for finals because their vocals weren't as good or their choreography wasn't as difficult. I understand this, but I still enjoyed their show and cheered their performance. However, I would think it is the responsiblity of the judges to put their personal preferences aside and judge a group based on the quality of their show, not whether it's comprised of the songs they like the best. Directors and choreographers are artists in my opion, and every artist has his or her style. You don't go to dance competition and see a ballet dancer being scored unfairly because a judge prefers tap, modern, lyrical, or hip hop. She is judged on the merits and skill of her chosen style of dance. It just seems to me that show choir is more subjective than other adjudicated competitions and that's been my only frustration with show choir. I think it unfair to ask directors and choreographers to try to plan their shows around a standard based on preference. I have seen a great diversity in styles this year, and that's what has made show choir so entertaining. I love each and every one of you - even the ones the judges don't seem to favor. Keep up the good work, and hopefully you won't all be forced to conform and variety will remain an attribute of show choir!
This was the first competition I have been to in about a year. As just a spectator I can say that my friends and I thought it might be a three way tie. People we are talking one point between three great performances.
You know everyone does their own style of show and some I like better than others but it's how well you perform what you have that matters. For those that say a group needs to do it different because they just do their style to win you need to talk to Clinton(Before someone reads in to this that I am bashing Clinton I will say they perform their shows so well they deserve their awards). Guys,groups do what their directors like and that is what it is going to be forever. Sure songs change and maybe a move or two ,throw in a comedy number,next move the ballad to the first song, whatever. Opinions of others shows will not change so don't get so offended by what someone else thinks of what your group does. Also to suggest that judges are basing their scores on "they do the same type of show every year"and not how well groups perform at a given contest I hope is absurd. And people some of you need to get a new attitude. What hasn't changed is the FEW that act nasty,and it came from a student or parent from almost every group Saturday. At least if you are going to say something nasty about a group do it in private so not every one has to listen. Last but not least congratulations to MT. Zion you improved the most from day to night,good job. All of the night performances were very good. Wait on more thing. Center Grove you will always be one of my favorites........
Congratulations to Mt Zion. I saw the shows and I thought Mt Zion earned the GC award. They sang..they didn't shout. Both HN and the WV were shouty. Mt Zion's show was awesome! It was unique and fun and you could tell they were having fun when they performed. I hate that people try and diminish their win..
LC had great vocals and I would have placed them in 2nd if it were just about vocals. But, show wise, the others topped them. The Prop issue really has no bearing in anything and to insinuate that props , CG and judging have anything in common is absurb. CG wasn't on the judging panel.
It was a fun contest and every group in the night show was a great group!!
QUOTE(choirfan @ Feb 18 2008, 08:25 AM) [snapback]420296[/snapback]
Huntington North has a very nice show but it is a cookie cutter of many of their past shows. The long dress. The tails. The tap. The flashy closer. The a cappella portion of the ballad followed by the combo swelling. The judges have seen it before and from a creative standpoint, the show lacks.
I am from HNHS and I will have to agree with you, it is basically the same kind of show from years past with differant music. But let us compare it to a football team, when they have a good set-up of quaterback and recievers and a game plan that has been working (like with the Patriots). You do not change the game plan at all, because it wins. We have been doing the same kind of show for I think the past 17 years maybe. The reason we do not step out of the box as someone else has said is because there are kinds of music and choreo and props that directors like and dislike, ergo, you stick with what you like and know how to do well. But I have to agree it is a cookie cutter so to say of years past.
QUOTE(choirfan @ Feb 18 2008, 09:25 AM) [snapback]420296[/snapback]
My opinion comes solely from being an audience member. Not affiliated with any group that competed. An earlier post mentioned something about how Mt. Zion was 4th going into finals and were surprised they ended up winning. What's the point of having finals if the outcome from prelims is what's expected at the end of the night show? The judges obviously saw something in Mt. Zion's show during the evening performance that either changed or improved based on their day show. Am I surprised? A little. Is the win unwarranted? Not in the least. And here's why.........
Mt. Zion absolutely benefited from their performance slot in finals. Last on the stage. Most recent in the judges minds. They also had a TON of audience support. I think their show was by far the most original with the most interesting music. Maybe not the most interesting arrangements but certainly the best overall song choice. Listen to their ballad again. It really builds to an exciting culmination. Their audience participation number is truly delightful and I think that song probably pushed them over the edge.
Huntington North has a very nice show but it is a cookie cutter of many of their past shows. The long dress. The tails. The tap. The flashy closer. The a cappella portion of the ballad followed by the combo swelling. The judges have seen it before and from a creative standpoint, the show lacks.
Waubonsie Valley also has a very unique show but the intensity that starts the show doesn't transcend the entire show. The show starts with a shot but by the end is just not as exciting.
I agree 100% of what you are saying. That makes sense! Nice job!
QUOTE(HumanGiant @ Feb 18 2008, 12:46 AM) [snapback]420243[/snapback]
First of all Mt Zion was in 4th going in to the finals. Also seeing how close the final standings were( Mt Zion on top and HN and WV tied only 1 point behind) it isnt that shocking. Mt Zion had by far the most entertaining show in the finals. I think it is crazy to say they were outperformed.
This is what i think, when your going to a compeition i figure your getting judge on vocals and dance, i don't think they were judging by entertainment. That's why most compeititons have a viewer choice award, or somehting that the audeince could vote for, and could not effect the outcome of a compeititon. I saw WV at mt. Zion, they were the best group there. I also saw Mt. zion show(which i am a fan of the swingsations ever since I was in the 8th grade) and I didn't think they would do so well this year! And, the whole open score judging on props, its not fair,but the directors do get a judge sheet in the packets weeks before the compeition, so they should have known they were gonna get judge on it.
But, for the people that was at this compeititon, did Mt.Zion really have great vocals????? Was there show perfect that they deserve GC? CAn anyone tell me?
You know this kinda reminds me of Center Grove compeition 2001, when Clinton placed 3rd and Mt. Zion placed 2nd! Everyone was shocked and mad!! But, hey thats the way it goes. I was there in 2001, and i thought Mt. Zion did a hella great job at that Compeition!
Now, if they(Mt. Zion) go to Sullivan this weekend at get GC over Clinton, then they must be doing somehting right!
QUOTE(dandydance @ Feb 18 2008, 09:20 PM) [snapback]420493[/snapback]
I don't understand. You made the finals didn't you? As I understand it, the prop scoring was not in the finals.
Just because you didn't place higher didn't have anything to do with the prop issue. The reason you placed where you did was because you weren't better than some other choirs (according to the judges-of course).
Come on, we all want to win, but don't blame the scoring for your placement. There are choirs who wish they were where you are.
This is a competition! Learn from it and try to get better! The competition at this contest was very good and I enjoyed it. Congrats to Mt. Zion and all of the finalists.
This Center Grove issue is pretty much dead to me but I don't know where dandydance gets his or her nerve! Let me just say that in no way did I voice any true complaints about the contest. I was merely saying what happend and how we felt about it. Not in that post did I ever attempt to start any conversation about the way the judging went down. I've kept those opinions private and to myself because what good is it going to do to voice them here? We knew that the prop scoring wouldn't take place in finals thus I never mentioned that issue when it came to finals judging! People made the whole props scoring issue out to be much bigger than it was. Yes, we thought it somewhat unfair and were a little annoyed. Even after competing at CG for so many years, we didn't even remember that particular score category existed on the scoresheet. However, We never blamed that on our final placement at Center Grove. Why must you insinuate that? I never downplayed any of Mt. Zion's ( or any other groups) success at Center Grove and I never attacked any choir and their abilities publicly on this forum. I simply cleared up the confusion involving Lawrence Central AND very respectfully stated my very vague opinion of the judging. Don't write a post making me seem like a sore loser. That's not the case, at all! You definitely over-analyzed the post I made and thus made yourself look stupid. As I told another forum member in a personal message, I would never misrepresent my group, director, students, and school! Please don't take my words and turn them against me to get your point across.
QUOTE(ANoteworthyFan @ Feb 18 2008, 09:59 PM) [snapback]420513[/snapback]
I'm not sure why you chose to express such unprofessional and vulgar opinions on this thread. On this website, while it IS open to opinions and personal commentary, we try to remain largely positive.
My opinion of the members of your choir is affected by what you've said tonight, as I suspect are many others.
Sorry for any feeling I might have hurt i was not aiming the comments i did make at any one person or group i was defending the insults of my group! well there gone now and sorry kinda that whole typing with anger thing then i reread it and kicked myself in the butt but any way sorry for my opinions and views of things! (i'm generally a nice person sometimes i let things get to me... sorry) and you shouldn't view my group so harshly i'm not the only person that has posted something a little harsh and regreted saying it. and this is my senior year so you wont even have to hear from me any more!
I'm not sure why you chose to express such unprofessional and vulgar opinions on this thread. On this website, while it IS open to opinions and personal commentary, we try to remain largely positive.
My opinion of the members of your choir is affected by what you've said tonight, as I suspect are many others.
That was completely uncalled for. Everyone was just giving their opinions, and though they might be different from what you would like to hear, it happens. No one was trying to personally offend anyone.
QUOTE(Mr. Step @ Feb 17 2008, 01:24 PM) [snapback]420073[/snapback]
As the Assistant Choreographer for LC I can explain what the loss of points was. The CG contest has an open score sheet that contains a category for use of equipment and props with the maximum amount of points available being 10. The Central Sound doesn't utilize props in this season's show. We weren't penalized but whether given mid-range scores of 5 by each judge during Prelims. This resulted in the "20 point loss" that we felt was unfair but we felt more strongly about the way we were adjudicated on what's important; Vocals and Choreography. What can you do, though?
I don't understand. You made the finals didn't you? As I understand it, the prop scoring was not in the finals.
Just because you didn't place higher didn't have anything to do with the prop issue. The reason you placed where you did was because you weren't better than some other choirs (according to the judges-of course).
Come on, we all want to win, but don't blame the scoring for your placement. There are choirs who wish they were where you are.
This is a competition! Learn from it and try to get better! The competition at this contest was very good and I enjoyed it. Congrats to Mt. Zion and all of the finalists.
QUOTE(choirfan @ Feb 18 2008, 05:25 AM) [snapback]420296[/snapback]
The judges have seen it before and from a creative standpoint, the show lacks.
I totally agree with this...some of the powerhouse choirs are losing their fans and the judges interest because they continually do the same types of shows every year. If you are a great choir, you should be able to do all different styles and still win. It almost seems as if these choirs are afraid to step out of their boundaries in fear that they won't win. What the ending result is is that the judges are going to become bored with seeing basically the same show performed every season...sigh...wonderful world of show choir...
My opinion comes solely from being an audience member. Not affiliated with any group that competed. An earlier post mentioned something about how Mt. Zion was 4th going into finals and were surprised they ended up winning. What's the point of having finals if the outcome from prelims is what's expected at the end of the night show? The judges obviously saw something in Mt. Zion's show during the evening performance that either changed or improved based on their day show. Am I surprised? A little. Is the win unwarranted? Not in the least. And here's why.........
Mt. Zion absolutely benefited from their performance slot in finals. Last on the stage. Most recent in the judges minds. They also had a TON of audience support. I think their show was by far the most original with the most interesting music. Maybe not the most interesting arrangements but certainly the best overall song choice. Listen to their ballad again. It really builds to an exciting culmination. Their audience participation number is truly delightful and I think that song probably pushed them over the edge.
Huntington North has a very nice show but it is a cookie cutter of many of their past shows. The long dress. The tails. The tap. The flashy closer. The a cappella portion of the ballad followed by the combo swelling. The judges have seen it before and from a creative standpoint, the show lacks.
Waubonsie Valley also has a very unique show but the intensity that starts the show doesn't transcend the entire show. The show starts with a shot but by the end is just not as exciting.
QUOTE(estasjamon @ Feb 17 2008, 10:54 AM) [snapback]420018[/snapback]
Everyone was shocked to understand how MtZion went from last going into to finals to placing first by ONE point. WV and HN BOTH outperformed MTZion vocally, visually, and musically.
First of all Mt Zion was in 4th going in to the finals. Also seeing how close the final standings were( Mt Zion on top and HN and WV tied only 1 point behind) it isnt that shocking. Mt Zion had by far the most entertaining show in the finals. I think it is crazy to say they were outperformed.
QUOTE(juliofrommississippi @ Feb 17 2008, 08:12 PM) [snapback]420148[/snapback]
Well my group did do better... haha jk.
What an interesting competition. I definitely would not have predicted this.
Your tellin me! I mean all groups did awsome but this was a crazy outcome and surprised many people. including myself I'm not upset that I lost I'm just upset about not knowing how HN or WV didnt win!
Theres only one more thing to say. Useing a famous Center Grove Line which holds true to this competition " THERE'S NO POLITICS IN SHOW CHOIR" LOL i thought it fit!!!
Center Grove Best of the Midwest 2008
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