Yeah, but at that FAME Chicago I hear Hastings got placed in second by every judge except one who put them in 5th place. . . bringing them to third. My alumni choir was there and it was such a great comp. But the placements in my opinion were wonky.
Well that was the judge's opinion. I was at FAME and everyone that I talked to thought LC killed it in finals, and I didn't hear anyone complain about them moving to 2nd. Their vocals were extremely strong, only 2nd best to Totino, and that ballad was WOW. Hastings didn't sing that well last year, but their choreography was really really really strong, probably 2nd best to Totino. I could definitely see how a vocal judge would place Hastings 5th. I mean Totino, LC, CR Kennedy, and Huntington North all sang lights out and personally I would've put Hastings 5th vocally.
Yeah, but at that FAME Chicago I hear Hastings got placed in second by every judge except one who put them in 5th place. . . bringing them to third. My alumni choir was there and it was such a great comp. But the placements in my opinion were wonky.
Scott, leave it to you to bring Franklin Central into every competition forum. Just to let you know, when Indiana and Iowa/Minnesota choirs competed against each other last year (to my knowledge no one has competed against each other this year) it was pretty even, if not on the side of Iowa/Minnesota...
At North Central, Cedar Rapids Jefferson won beating Lafayette Jefferson, Zionsville, and Plainfield- 3 very good groups.
At FAME Chicago in day round Totino-Grace, Hastings, and Cedar Rapids Kennedy were beating Lawrence Central and Huntington North in day round. LC came back to beat Hastings and Kennedy in finals, but it was a SUPER close competition.
Indiana is not the powerhouse state it used to be back when you were in school. This side of the midwest has improved SOOOO much since then. Maybe you should come over sometime and actually see one of these groups and then you can talk. But I know for a fact you have never seen any of those groups live. So you should keep your mouth shut when you don't know what you are talking about.
I'm going to say it right now. I was trying to back up Clinton. But any score sheet that's weighted vocal heavy as it should be, is going to be a disadvantage to Clinton. I LOVE the show design, costuming, combo, arrangements, choreography, shoes, hair, ugh, I love a LOT of things about attache, but Vocals don't really come to mind when I think of them. Of what I've seen live this year FC and Zionsville are the 2 top choirs in Indiana, They were both head and shoulders above MTZ and FC was very close to WV and I'm told they felt it was a down performance, and a missed opportunity.
That being said, and considering Marysville and Hasting's placements at this competition, I'd venture to guess that had Either FC or Zionsville shown up at Totino Grace, Clinton would have been going home 1st or 2ru.
IMO regardless of the rest of the scorsheet, If there is a huge gap in vocal ability, the better CHOIR should win. Show choir is nothing without vocals, and I'm tired of seeing programs with tons of experience, and cash, relying on that instead of vocals to get them to 1st place. I think the heavily vocal weighted issma scoresheet has really helped a lot of amazing groups in indiana with less pop appeal or huge sets, or props etc, be truly appreciated for what's truly important, and thrive because of that reinforcement.
Scott, not every group from Indiana is the best.
Until you watch these groups in one venue, and in person does not give you a place to try to compare them as much as you have.
Once again you hold Indiana choirs to such a high regard when you are not familiar with Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin or South Dakota choirs.
@Pianoman1988: I think you bring up some good points, but I'm not sure I agree with everything you're saying.
For one:
QUOTE (Pianoman1988 @ Mar 08 2011, 02:34 AM)
But any score sheet that's weighted vocal heavy as it should be, is going to be a disadvantage to Clinton.
I have two issues with this. One, "...as it should be" is not only an opinion, it's different at every competition. And Clinton has won all of their competition, no matter how the score sheet was arranged. Two, they're vocals aren't bad. Plain and simple. The gym worked against them, as it worked against every group that performed their. I'd imagine you'd think differently of their vocals if you saw them rehearsing.
QUOTE (Pianoman1988 @ Mar 08 2011, 02:34 AM)
That being said, and considering Marysville and Hasting's placements at this competition, I'd venture to guess that had Either FC or Zionsville shown up at Totino Grace, Clinton would have been going home 1st or 2ru.
I can't comment on FC or Zionsville; I've never seen them, let alone this year. But Hastings, Mitchell, Waconia... There were several very good groups that got beat. Just because Clinton didn't beat the best groups in the nation at this competition doesn't mean they can't.
QUOTE (Pianoman1988 @ Mar 08 2011, 02:34 AM)
IMO regardless of the rest of the scorsheet, If there is a huge gap in vocal ability, the better CHOIR should win. Show choir is nothing without vocals, and I'm tired of seeing programs with tons of experience, and cash, relying on that instead of vocals to get them to 1st place. I think the heavily vocal weighted issma scoresheet has really helped a lot of amazing groups in indiana with less pop appeal or huge sets, or props etc, be truly appreciated for what's truly important, and thrive because of that reinforcement.
I'm not sure this is a fair thing to say. If it was a straight choir competition, everyone would be standing in one place and singing. While it is an important aspect, the other aspects were added into the scoring equation for the express purpose of allowing groups to be judged on alternate criteria. While this doesn't allow a group to ignore vocals, it does open up new avenues to success. Suddenly, the best group isn't always the one that wins best vocals. No doubt, it helps, but it's not essential.
All this being said, I realize it probably looks like I'm just defending Clinton. I'd like to say that this is not what I wish to communicate. I value Clinton and all the other groups that performed at Spectacular. Yes, it would help to have seen a scoresheet; it would help us in our analysis of the competition. But without one, I don't think it's possible to make such concrete judgments as 'Clinton didn't have that good of vocals'. I'm sorry if this post comes off as derogatory; that is not my intent.
Hm...I don't really know how you can support your argument in this competition's case. Clinton sang beautifully. They really did. Their vocals are good this year. And the score sheet WAS weighted vocally. I think something like 100 points on the sheet were vocals and 70 was choreography. Basically what I'm saying is that Attache' was not far behind in vocals and was quite far ahead in choreography, which is how they ended up winning. And no, I do not think FC or Zionsville would be able to beat them. LOL.
I'm going to say it right now. I was trying to back up Clinton. But any score sheet that's weighted vocal heavy as it should be, is going to be a disadvantage to Clinton. I LOVE the show design, costuming, combo, arrangements, choreography, shoes, hair, ugh, I love a LOT of things about attache, but Vocals don't really come to mind when I think of them. Of what I've seen live this year FC and Zionsville are the 2 top choirs in Indiana, They were both head and shoulders above MTZ and FC was very close to WV and I'm told they felt it was a down performance, and a missed opportunity.
That being said, and considering Marysville and Hasting's placements at this competition, I'd venture to guess that had Either FC or Zionsville shown up at Totino Grace, Clinton would have been going home 1st or 2ru.
IMO regardless of the rest of the scorsheet, If there is a huge gap in vocal ability, the better CHOIR should win. Show choir is nothing without vocals, and I'm tired of seeing programs with tons of experience, and cash, relying on that instead of vocals to get them to 1st place. I think the heavily vocal weighted issma scoresheet has really helped a lot of amazing groups in indiana with less pop appeal or huge sets, or props etc, be truly appreciated for what's truly important, and thrive because of that reinforcement.
Being able to go up and just watch every single group was amazing! The outcomes definitely what everybody expected but there wasnt a show choir that didn't look fantastic. Any of those schools there could have easily won at practically any other competition. and the soloists were all phenomenal.
In my opinion, Clinton lived up to all the hype and deserved the win. Their choreography was so sharp and clean and the story line of their show and how it flowed together made so much sense and they easily sold their whole show. Phenomenal!
Bemidji absolutely killed their show and it show how much progress they have made this year after seeing them first at Supernova.
Mitchell was a school that I hardly knew anything about and their finals performance was spectacular. It was something unique and awesome.
Bloomington Kennedy never ceases to amaze me. Their opener is always fun to watch. Especially the dragon!
Hastings... quality show! the minnesota girls is hilarious as is the guys feature and the drum line is so cool.
Waconia was so much fun to watch!! Every single one of their soloists were perfect for their respective song!
Awesome amounts of awesome show choir. It was insane. Loved every second. Congrats to all groups.
I was really impressed with Clinton's everything... it was flawless from top to bottom, that's why the win everything.
I thought Hastings closer was just awesome and energizing, and they had great vocals, however not a huge fan of character voices and the MN girls song. But they were funny, and well executed and I had a feeling they'd beat Mitchell after I saw their finals performance.
Mitchell- Love the subtle changes made since last week. Everything looked and sounded great to me as always congrats!
A post before I go on to make another post about all the groups' performances:
I find it unfortunate that there has been some hate being tossed around. Every single group that competed on Saturday was absolutely fantastic. I have never seen such a large number of such talented groups gathered at one competition. EVER. None of you have anything to be ashamed of; every performance amazed those who watched it.
Saying that "Group X got screwed" or "Group Y shouldn't have been so highly ranked"... They're stupid comments. The judges did what they did, and they gave the results. SO STOP MAKING IT ABOUT OTHER CHOIRS! None of the kids here did anything that would deserve derision. They just performed. If you have an issue with the judges' scores, take it up with them.
Thank you to everyone who kept conversation here running nicely.
And thank you to everyone who came to and made Spectacular such an amazing event. Hands down the best competition I have been to, in terms of the people who were there. Every group was incredibly nice, proper, and professional.
Totino-Grace Show Choir Spectacular 2011
