QUOTE (juliofrommississippi @ Mar 24 2011, 01:32 PM)
I think in Indiana the judges tend to look for a different style of choreography. They look for REALLY clean lines, sharp choreo, with a certain visual style, which kind of leads to easier choreography. Because, if you are not 100% clean, don't bother competing in Indiana. I don't think that is true in all places, though. I find that in other states, judges will excuse a little sloppiness if the choreography is full of energy, exciting, and visually difficult.
This is not necessarily my opinion, as I don't rate one style better than the other, but it's more what I have found from watching competitions in many different states. Just kinda depends on the show choir culture in that area.
Actually, I just saw this, so you're now at a negative 3 for being completely unreasonable and quite stupid. "Excuse a little sloppiness if the choreography is full of energy"... What a crock of ****.
Have you looked at a score sheet?
I'm sorry, *edit, I guess it was only -3 until you got someone to up vote it. You know i wouldn't just thumbs down you without telling you why you're wrong, like a coward... "Real talk" I kinda like that, Champ can fight me over it. Thumbs up, thumbs down is for people who don't have enough back bone to speak their mind... I don't play that petty game...
It seems that Vocals tend to be 70-30 in Indiana while In Ohio and other states more like 60-40. Blame ISSMA for that one. But, I think that several of the groups are STELLAR at choreography and could win Best Choreo at almost any competition.
Yes, please blame ISSMA for judging vocals heavily over choreography, in a choral competition.
QUOTE (juliofrommississippi @ Mar 24 2011, 01:32 PM)
I think in Indiana the judges tend to look for a different style of choreography. They look for REALLY clean lines, sharp choreo, with a certain visual style, which kind of leads to easier choreography. Because, if you are not 100% clean, don't bother competing in Indiana. I don't think that is true in all places, though. I find that in other states, judges will excuse a little sloppiness if the choreography is full of energy, exciting, and visually difficult.
This is not necessarily my opinion, as I don't rate one style better than the other, but it's more what I have found from watching competitions in many different states. Just kinda depends on the show choir culture in that area.
Kind of...
It seems that Vocals tend to be 70-30 in Indiana while In Ohio and other states more like 60-40. Blame ISSMA for that one. But, I think that several of the groups are STELLAR at choreography and could win Best Choreo at almost any competition.
QUOTE (juliofrommississippi @ Mar 24 2011, 01:32 PM)
I think in Indiana the judges tend to look for a different style of choreography. They look for REALLY clean lines, sharp choreo, with a certain visual style, which kind of leads to easier choreography. Because, if you are not 100% clean, don't bother competing in Indiana. I don't think that is true in all places, though. I find that in other states, judges will excuse a little sloppiness if the choreography is full of energy, exciting, and visually difficult.
This is not necessarily my opinion, as I don't rate one style better than the other, but it's more what I have found from watching competitions in many different states. Just kinda depends on the show choir culture in that area.
I see you point, but no of course vocals are important I love the "chills" from amazing vocals. It seems tho that the judging has been more towards the more traditional dancing like Indiana. The engergetic choreo does seem to take away from vocals though because you are putting more energy and effort into the choreo to make it sharp and clean. Very hard to balance
I think in Indiana the judges tend to look for a different style of choreography. They look for REALLY clean lines, sharp choreo, with a certain visual style, which kind of leads to easier choreography. Because, if you are not 100% clean, don't bother competing in Indiana. I don't think that is true in all places, though. I find that in other states, judges will excuse a little sloppiness if the choreography is full of energy, exciting, and visually difficult.
This is not necessarily my opinion, as I don't rate one style better than the other, but it's more what I have found from watching competitions in many different states. Just kinda depends on the show choir culture in that area.
btw Carmels competition set from the concert for the community we do will be up soon (today or tomorrow) and it's really incredible quality much better than those up on utube just in case you care
I totally disagree. The classic show choir (Carmel, CG, Findlay) do dance a lot but take more interest in doing proper moves (pointing toes, straight legs during a kick, etc.) while a contemporary show choir (Marysville, Tburg, Fairfield) is more about sharpness and being clean with a lot of energy.
Both sides consider the other "not dancing" when in fact they both are. Put it this way comparing the two types are like comparing the Foxtrot to Hip-Hop, both are difficult in their own way but what makes you good at one is by correctly executing the one you are doing.
Also, I am ashamed if Ohio groups have come to the point of letting their choreography get in the way of their vocals. I am positive that they have not but by what you are saying it seems like Ohio groups could care less about them.
Moral of the story, just because it's not your type of choreography and choreography that you like, it doesn't mean it's not hard. Ever think that maybe the other type of choreography is harder but the groups doing it make it look easy?
I see you point, but no of course vocals are important I love the "chills" from amazing vocals. It seems tho that the judging has been more towards the more traditional dancing like Indiana. The engergetic choreo does seem to take away from vocals though because you are putting more energy and effort into the choreo to make it sharp and clean. Very hard to balance
I totally disagree. The classic show choir (Carmel, CG, Findlay) do dance a lot but take more interest in doing proper moves (pointing toes, straight legs during a kick, etc.) while a contemporary show choir (Marysville, Tburg, Fairfield) is more about sharpness and being clean with a lot of energy.
Both sides consider the other "not dancing" when in fact they both are. Put it this way comparing the two types are like comparing the Foxtrot to Hip-Hop, both are difficult in their own way but what makes you good at one is by correctly executing the one you are doing.
Also, I am ashamed if Ohio groups have come to the point of letting their choreography get in the way of their vocals. I am positive that they have not but by what you are saying it seems like Ohio groups could care less about them.
Moral of the story, just because it's not your type of choreography and choreography that you like, it doesn't mean it's not hard. Ever think that maybe the other type of choreography is harder but the groups doing it make it look easy?
I totally agree. As a student in Ohio, it is hard to look past what is typically Indiana choreography. I respect both views, as I know that groups from Indiana look at Ohio's shows and wonder why we have no choreo at all. I disagree in the fact that it seems like Ohio's groups have let choreo get in the way of vocals. It would seem that many Ohio groups only focus on their vocals when they know they are up against an Indiana powerhouse, unfortunately.
I totally disagree. The classic show choir (Carmel, CG, Findlay) do dance a lot but take more interest in doing proper moves (pointing toes, straight legs during a kick, etc.) while a contemporary show choir (Marysville, Tburg, Fairfield) is more about sharpness and being clean with a lot of energy.
Both sides consider the other "not dancing" when in fact they both are. Put it this way comparing the two types are like comparing the Foxtrot to Hip-Hop, both are difficult in their own way but what makes you good at one is by correctly executing the one you are doing.
Also, I am ashamed if Ohio groups have come to the point of letting their choreography get in the way of their vocals. I am positive that they have not but by what you are saying it seems like Ohio groups could care less about them.
Moral of the story, just because it's not your type of choreography and choreography that you like, it doesn't mean it's not hard. Ever think that maybe the other type of choreography is harder but the groups doing it make it look easy?
This is very well said! Also, as a dancer/choreographer I've spent a lot of my time training, studying, learning in the classical (ballet, jazz, modern, tap, musical theatre) styles. However, much of my professional work (dancer or choreographer) has revolved around the more contemporary styles like hip-hop, urban jazz, commercial pop & funk, etc. Working in show choir, you really do get an amalgamation of all of these things. Frankly, I find that the best choreographers are trying to bridge the gap between the two fields and give groups a variety of styles/looks. It makes the shows much more interesting, often more stylistically appropriate, and overall more fun to watch.
The show choir community is quite large so there's a place for everyone. All the different approaches, ideas, and concepts are truly what make this genre of performing arts so great in the first place.
I totally disagree. The classic show choir (Carmel, CG, Findlay) do dance a lot but take more interest in doing proper moves (pointing toes, straight legs during a kick, etc.) while a contemporary show choir (Marysville, Tburg, Fairfield) is more about sharpness and being clean with a lot of energy.
Both sides consider the other "not dancing" when in fact they both are. Put it this way comparing the two types are like comparing the Foxtrot to Hip-Hop, both are difficult in their own way but what makes you good at one is by correctly executing the one you are doing.
Also, I am ashamed if Ohio groups have come to the point of letting their choreography get in the way of their vocals. I am positive that they have not but by what you are saying it seems like Ohio groups could care less about them.
Moral of the story, just because it's not your type of choreography and choreography that you like, it doesn't mean it's not hard. Ever think that maybe the other type of choreography is harder but the groups doing it make it look easy?
Well, that's your opinion, I suppose. I find the hand thing far more distracting, and when people applaud for a soloist, they're usually only clapping/cheering for a few seconds or so. I also think that crowd support can actually add to a performance. I don't think, for instance, that this very popular clip would have the same effect if all the cheering and excitement from the audience was reduced to silly hand flaps:
A lot of choreography is different and that's not why. For instance, twinsburg has a completely different show that like everybody but it was very enjoyable to watch an they also had really good clean choreography at parts in their show (a lot of standing also). But Indiana in general seems to be very vocal based and have choreo that doesn't affect their vocals as much. They have a lot less steps in general. If you are talking about choreo I LIKE that would be Randy sages choreo. He choreographs our second number and closer, Fairfields show, and some of Burbank (their hardest choreo). Ohio is more choreography based and I love that
I totally disagree. The classic show choir (Carmel, CG, Findlay) do dance a lot but take more interest in doing proper moves (pointing toes, straight legs during a kick, etc.) while a contemporary show choir (Marysville, Tburg, Fairfield) is more about sharpness and being clean with a lot of energy.
Both sides consider the other "not dancing" when in fact they both are. Put it this way comparing the two types are like comparing the Foxtrot to Hip-Hop, both are difficult in their own way but what makes you good at one is by correctly executing the one you are doing.
Also, I am ashamed if Ohio groups have come to the point of letting their choreography get in the way of their vocals. I am positive that they have not but by what you are saying it seems like Ohio groups could care less about them.
Moral of the story, just because it's not your type of choreography and choreography that you like, it doesn't mean it's not hard. Ever think that maybe the other type of choreography is harder but the groups doing it make it look easy?
Well, that's your opinion, I suppose. I find the hand thing far more distracting, and when people applaud for a soloist, they're usually only clapping/cheering for a few seconds or so. I also think that crowd support can actually add to a performance. I don't think, for instance, that this very popular clip would have the same effect if all the cheering and excitement from the audience was reduced to silly hand flaps:
For the hand waving to be equally obnoxious as the crowd noise, 20 or 30 hand wavers would have to get up on the stage and stand right in front of the performers.
Well, that's your opinion, I suppose. I find the hand thing far more distracting, and when people applaud for a soloist, they're usually only clapping/cheering for a few seconds or so. I also think that crowd support can actually add to a performance. I don't think, for instance, that this very popular clip would have the same effect if all the cheering and excitement from the audience was reduced to silly hand flaps:
Also, I'm not saying AT ALL that DJ/April/Randy/Damon aren't all great choreographers! They are, and their stuff is not in any way EASY. That isn't what I'm talking about here...
People are actually saying that Ron Morgan and Andy Haines' choreography is easy though, and that is just completely inaccurate.
both CG and Carmel are so classy that they of course will not defend themselves, so here I am, trying to help ppl see that just because the style is different, does not mean that it's easy.... There's a lot of work that the average person in show choir is just not going to see...
I will agree that in general Indiana groups are more vocal oriented and I blame ISMMA for that. ISMMA weights the vocals higher than visual. There are some Indiana groups that spend a great deal of time on choreo, one of those groups being CG. Anyone that has been choreographed by the Andy Haines knows what I am talking about lol.
Yes, lol. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't really understand overall visual effect... I've decided to stop defending the difficulty of CG and Carmel's choreography, it's not doing any good lol. These ppl look at Center Grove's choreo, vs Fairfield's (Randy Sage as well I believe?) and they don't see the difference in difficulty.... What can you really say to explain the vast difference between the 2 styles. Ron Morgan/Andy Haines VS DJ/April/Randy/Damon ??? the "amount of steps" has nothing to do with it.
I tried, and even people that have been around show choir for YEARS aren't understanding, because choreography that can only work in show choir, is apparently more fun to watch, than choreography inspired by legitimate theater and a well rounded understanding of dance technique... Therefore, the fun stuff must be harder... lol
Just because my fat rear doesn't dance, doesn't mean that I can't read a book... So before you start asking If I can do the steps, think about what you're saying. I'm a musical theater, Opera, and Ballet nut and have seen live performances of:
Ragtime
Cabaret
The Producers
Rent
Wicked
Les Miserables
Phantom of the Opera
Into the Woods
A Grand Night for Singing
The Music Man
25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee
Fiddler On the Roof
Cinderella
Beauty and the Beast
I know i'm missing a couple musicals.... hmm
Opera:
Lohengrin
la Triviata
Rigoletto
Faust
La Giaconda
Carmen
Ballet:
Scheherezade
Swan Lake
Nutcracker
Rite of Spring
Sleeping Beauty
I've seen enough real theater, have enough dance majors/choreographers as friends, and have read enough to know wtf I'm talking about...
This is the last time i'm saying anything about choreo or anything to do with difficulty, it falls on deaf ears.
A lot of choreography is different and that's not why. For instance, twinsburg has a completely different show that like everybody but it was very enjoyable to watch an they also had really good clean choreography at parts in their show (a lot of standing also). But Indiana in general seems to be very vocal based and have choreo that doesn't affect their vocals as much. They have a lot less steps in general. If you are talking about choreo I LIKE that would be Randy sages choreo. He choreographs our second number and closer, Fairfields show, and some of Burbank (their hardest choreo). Ohio is more choreography based and I love that
I will agree that in general Indiana groups are more vocal oriented and I blame ISMMA for that. ISMMA weights the vocals higher than visual. There are some Indiana groups that spend a great deal of time on choreo, one of those groups being CG. Anyone that has been choreographed by the Andy Haines knows what I am talking about lol.
Teays Valley Classic 2011
