QUOTE(E @ Feb 28 2008, 06:37 PM) [snapback]423485[/snapback]
What I got from that was that they originally threw out the one judge's score and named Central champion. Following a recount of the other four judges' scores that were used, Dowling had won. And if all five judges scores had been used, Pella would have won.
Correct me if I'm wrong...
Alright lets back up, because I'm starting to get confused.
QUOTE(TaylorB @ Feb 28 2008, 06:25 PM) [snapback]423481[/snapback]
I don't mean to sound rude, or degrading towards Dowling, but there was no mistake. If you read what Adam put on here, the competition (or the other judges, one of the two) threw away the 5th judges scores. Central got 4 out of 5 first places, so that is what "officially" got them/us the GC
Once again, I thought that Dowling was a good choir. You guys surprised me with how good your show was. I'll expect even better things out of you guys next year.
What I got from that was that they originally threw out the one judge's score and named Central champion. Following a recount of the other four judges' scores that were used, Dowling had won. And if all five judges scores had been used, Pella would have won.
QUOTE(J-TownMom @ Feb 28 2008, 06:09 PM) [snapback]423474[/snapback]
From the perspective of a vocal-music parent who has been involved with invitationals, it was a very entertaining competition, and I feel sorry for the organizers. Mistakes happen. It's tough when they impact situations like this one -- the group that ends up being named GC doesn't get to enjoy the "moment," and the other group is disappointed to lose the title they thought they'd won. I hope this can be worked out in a way that doesn't reflect badly on SEP and the new directors there. Over the years, that's been one of my favorite competitions, and no one certainly meant for this to happen.
That said, congratulations to Dowling and Jody White (and choreographer Molly McConnell) on an amazing success story. You have a very entertaining, very classy show.
I don't mean to sound rude, or degrading towards Dowling, but there was no mistake. If you read what Adam put on here, the competition (or the other judges, one of the two) threw away the 5th judges scores. Central got 4 out of 5 first places, so that is what "officially" got them/us the GC
Once again, I thought that Dowling was a good choir. You guys surprised me with how good your show was. I'll expect even better things out of you guys next year.
From the perspective of a vocal-music parent who has been involved with invitationals, it was a very entertaining competition, and I feel sorry for the organizers. Mistakes happen. It's tough when they impact situations like this one -- the group that ends up being named GC doesn't get to enjoy the "moment," and the other group is disappointed to lose the title they thought they'd won. I hope this can be worked out in a way that doesn't reflect badly on SEP and the new directors there. Over the years, that's been one of my favorite competitions, and no one certainly meant for this to happen.
That said, congratulations to Dowling and Jody White (and choreographer Molly McConnell) on an amazing success story. You have a very entertaining, very classy show.
QUOTE(Jorge @ Feb 27 2008, 10:35 PM) [snapback]423247[/snapback]
Martin does!
:cues Martin's history post:
I actually remembered the name, and dug up an old (OLD!!!) CRJ program from (gulp) 1990 to prove me right.
He was the director at SC Heelan after Paula Keeler left for SC East. I don't know how long he was at Heelan. Embarrasingly enough, I thought he had passed away (sorry!). Guess I was very, very wrong about that unfactual tid bit!
I have no idea of where he is at now - can't find a single thing on him on a google search either. I figured he might have moved on to a small college position or something, but something like that would easily pop up on a search. So I have no clue other than that...
EDIT UPDATE:
After a much deeper google search (really - it was hard coming up with combinations of words to find anything!) it appears Mr. Clifford is currently director of music at Morningside Lutheran church in Sioux City, and led a worship music session at the Iowa Choral Directors Association summer symposium in 2007. So he is very much around, though I'm unaware of how much other work he does with show choirs and other choral judging, or what his connection to SE Polk might have been - since the other 4 are well regarded judges who have all been on the circuit for some time now.
Regardless - I hope all parties involved can come to a fair and logical solution to the scoring mess. It's a pity - from what I've been told, the SE Polk contest is a nice event to attend, and I would hope those considering it for next year don't let this unfortunate snafu nix their plans to go, because I doubt it will happen again there!
Well, I will start by saying our groups at T-G have been involved in at least 3 major errors that effected the announced results since 2004- Mt. Zion, Waconia, and Eau Claire. It happens more often that you might think, sadly. It is a terribly difficult thing for all groups invovled, and the competitions hosting. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
When it happened at Waconia, a mistake was initially discovered shortly after the final awards ceremony. The director at Waconia immediately found us as well as the director of Bemidji "Vocalmotive" the other group involved in the initial mistake. He told our entire staff that we had been erroneously announed as the Grand Champions. We made the decision to tell our kids ourselves, rather than have him announce it. We then spoke with the directors at Bemidji as well as Aaron Olson about what should be done. Quite frankly, we felt it was unfair to take the title AWAY from our kids- absolutely, Bemidji should have been rewarded with the title as well, but taking a GC away from a show choir who just spent half an hour celebrating it is rough. In the end, we did not keep the title- or the trophy. It was decided that Bemidji would be recorded as the Grand Champions of the competition, and we would be the 1st Runner-Ups as well as the Champions by Raw Score (actual placements were determined by rankings).
As for the trophy...we presented that to Bemidji, along with our sincere congratulations at our competition a few weeks later. They had earned it, and even though Waconia was going to send them a new one, we felt the deserved the actual one. Plus, once you're told you didn't actually earn it, it's not a great reminder to have hanging around the office.
As a sidenote, we were called a day or two later and told that they made an error when correcting the initial error, and we ended up in third after initially being named the GC, then the 1st Runner-Up. Oddly, we don't have trophies for ANY of our placements that day- even though we went through three of them!
I do think that Aaron Olson did the right thing by doing SOMETHING about it- not making a mistake like that public is really unfair to everyone. It's a very unfortunate situation, but it happens, and the best thing that can be done is dealing with it.
I didn't think they would ask for it back but to me if you had a trophy and you really didn't win it I don't think I would want it. I really am hoping this is not true.
QUOTE(KEVDOUG @ Feb 26 2008, 11:47 PM) [snapback]422928[/snapback]
So if this is confirmed true, what happens? Do groups give back the trophys and get new ones? How would you fix this?
I would hope for the validity of Southeast Polk's competition that they would NOT ask Davenport Central to return their trophy. It's VERY rude, seeing as how it's their own fault if these "mathematical errors" are true. This is a "Waconia 2006" all over again... only it happened days after, and not at the competition. Ana, would you please refresh our memories on what occured?
QUOTE(Jorge @ Feb 26 2008, 09:44 PM) [snapback]422925[/snapback]
Were you / are you in show choir "Citizen of Davenport"? What's TRULY strange is, how you just pop out of no where and start posting on a topic that lies so close to you heart.
No, I was never a show choir member in Davenport.
Obviously Davenport isn't to close to my heart, as it isn't even my hometown. But you didn't know that. No need to get defensive.
Southeast Polk RAM Showcase 2008
