QUOTE(smitty @ Mar 26 2007, 07:13 AM) [snapback]397067[/snapback]
but i don't think the results are wacky that i have...i think they are what normal not biased fair judges who don't let their personal taste get in the way of their judging.
wow.... what is that? The whole point of having judges is for them to give their opinion on shows. No one has the same opinion, thats why there are opinions. Also, you are saying that only normal people have your opinions, when earlier in the topic people have had all different sorts of opinions than yours. I just don't know where you get off saying that judges aren't allowed to have personal taste. Results aren't always the same as everyone thinks they should be, because everyone has a different opinion. That's the fun of competion. It's going to be different every time because the judges, and the performances are different.
Oh and I love the way you end your post... "just my thoughts". What a hypocrite. You're allowed opinions but those crazy, not normal, biased judges are not allowed to have their personal taste get in the way of their judging....
QUOTE(number1singer @ Mar 25 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]396959[/snapback]
Nope, actually it's SHOW CHOIR! haha
It's a good thing you're not a judge, because those results are VERY wacky
i think the only reason you think my results are wacky is because your group isn't in the top 6...
yes ladies and gentlemen, it is SHOW CHOIR...sorry bout that..
but i don't think the results are wacky that i have...i think they are what normal not biased fair judges who don't let their personal taste get in the way of their judging.
QUOTE(smitty @ Mar 25 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]396900[/snapback]
i mean, it is show choir
Nope, actually it's SHOW CHOIR! haha
QUOTE(smitty @ Mar 25 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]396900[/snapback]
I would ahve ranked them
1) North Central
2)Carmel
3) Warren Central
4) Lawrence Central
5) Ben Davis
6) Lawrence North
7)Plainfield
8)Dekalb
9)Brownsburg
10) Castle
11) Anderson
12) Mooresville
It's a good thing you're not a judge, because those results are VERY wacky
Though Ben Davis may not dance much in their opener, They still have some of the most challenging choreography in the state qualificating choirs. No offense to Plainfield at all, but Jarad Voss gives Ben Davis very challenging choreo compared to Jeff VanParis' choreography. Also, they may have cut their guy/girl numbers, but they had to add in and learn tons more choreography. And, by a reliable source, I know that the reason they cut their guys and girls number is due to technical difficulties. (The Lift Broke, and the girl in Love Potion got injured badly)
Also, despite the whole "show liking" thing, Dekalb can not be denied the talents they bring to their show. Maybe the judges did like a classical approach better, but they SHOULD not be punished due to their directors show choices.
The judging was screwy, and this was obvious to me when the Warren Central Hi-Lites, and Anderson's Girls(Class act?) were not in the top 6 girl choirs.
I didn't mean to insult the choreography or any group or anything at all. VP choreographs very safely. He uses moves he is familiar with and knows are easy to clean. It can be very frustrating to me to use many of the same steps that i have been using since sophomore year. That will not be an issue for any future Belles et Beaux members as VP retired/was let go after our first competition. It sucks that Ben Davis had difficulties with their lift and health of the members. I like BD a lot and was hoping to see the same show i saw at the beginning of the season. The same goes for Dekalb. They have an incredible show but no matter what you call it, judges will always be opinionated. That's the dilemma with having human judges. Everything changes with the group of judges. I know the majority of you don't think Plainfield deserved the 6th spot. I think it could have gone to anyone. To be honest i liked the 6 shows that didn't place better than i like our own.
1st: Carmel (best vocals)
2nd: North Central (best visuals)
3rd: Lawrence Central (best band)
4th: Lawrence North
5th: Warren Central
6th: Plainfield
Womens
1st: Carmel (best vocals and visuals)
2nd: North Central
3rd: Lawrence Central (best band)
4th: Brownsburg
5th: Ben Davis
6th: Lawrence North
in both divisions I question some of the placings and i will admit the judging was a little whacked out.
For the women I would have gone kept the top 2 (Carmel and NC), put Brownsburg at 3, Warren Central at 4, Lawrence Central at 5, and Ben Davis at 6. those are my thoughts. I think it had to have been close for the Warren Central girls and the lawrence north girls. but the placings fell the way they did and we should just accept that for now.
as for the mixed...i dont agree with the top 12 placings at ALL
I would ahve ranked them
1) North Central
2)Carmel
3) Warren Central
4) Lawrence Central
5) Ben Davis
6) Lawrence North
7)Plainfield
8)Dekalb
9)Brownsburg
10) Castle
11) Anderson
12) Mooresville
The top 2 spots we know who was going to be in them...Carmal and North Central...and I think depending on the day they could switch. Both are exellent groups and have excellent shows. Carmel's elaborate amazing closer costumes were amazing and i think fit the song perfectly. but for those top two spots, it could go either way
The same goes for places 3 and 4. Lawrence Central and Warren Central are AWESOME groups. both have spectacular vocals and Warren Central is fricken amazing this yaer...i really thought they would have placed higher. but lawrence is great too so i think there is a tossup as well. but i would go Warren the nLawrence Central...no offense to Lawrence. just my opinion...i love both groups.
places 5 and 6 is when things get tough. in the previous 4 spots, we have already picked the best 4 chiors, now we have to go after 5 and 6. this is where things get difficult...because here a lot of choirs are on the same calibur with eachother and it's the littlest things that will set them apart to make them place higher. i put Ben DAvis in 5th cause though it is a rebuilding year, they sing VERY well. and y'all can criticize their choreography and how they don't dance and whatever in their opener, but then they dance the rest of the show...so as long as they aint just standing there twiddling their thumbs and singin, i think they'llbe ok dong choreo. like stated earlier, ben davis has some hard chore from jarad voss. he's great and gives challengin stuff to all of his groups. not to knock anyone else, but Jarad Voss's choreo can be pretty intense. Lawrence North also sings well, but I think at times it gets shouty. but they dance very well...go WOODY!!! but again, very close between the two
The rest of the placings, they are very close. VERY VERY VERY CLOSE. Plainfield, Dekalb, Brownsburg, and Castle could go any way to be honest. PLainfield is having a decent year, Dekalb is usually good, Brownsburg doesn't get recognized for their vocals like they should and Castle is one AWESOME small group that I think as time goes on will be taking down some of the bigger groups. And to be honest, soon in the small school division, castle and Norwell will be the groups to beat...but that's another subject.
But back to the point, State may not have Center Grove, Huntington North, Lafayette Jefferson, Highland, Homestead, Norwell, or Edgewood there, but there are still some great groups there. The competition may not have all the powerhouses down there, but nonetheless it's a hrad competition.
And for my 2 cents on some other things...
I agree everyone is jealous of Carmel cause they are Carmel. I mean, hello, Carmel defined the defintion of show choir powerhouse. and for them to come back 19 years later and still be awesome...yeah people are gonna get jealous. but that's with a lot of the great groups. How many people want to see Huntington Norths, Findlays, Clintons, Lafayette Jeffersons, Mt Zions and Center Groves get beat? lots because people like to see when the giants fall...i know that sounds mean, but it's true. people are jealous...they might love a choir, but they are jealous of them because they are better. plain and simple. When the giants fall, people know that it either a few things happened. 1) weird judging or 2) that it's an off year.
For judging, judges are to base their scoring on vocals and choreo. But some element of how entertaining their show is does play a role whether its' on the score sheet or not...i mean, it is show choir and judges will let the entertainment value get in the way of their judging. PErfect examples:
Homestead 2005: Lafayette Jeff has an awesome stage, great lighting, and a sweet jump at the end of their show. But the vocals weren't the best. Huntington North also had the great lighting effects, but not the costumes and girl doing the crazy jump. And even though it wasn't the best Huntington North year, they HAD the better vocals and were the better choir.
Ben Davis 2004: Huntington North won this by one point and was followed by North Central. Huntington North had one of their CLASSIC shows that was just awesome and really great. But North Central had the vocals that could knock everyone off their feet and their ballad alone should have been a reason for them to win.
Dekalb 2005: Findlay got 2nd, Teays Valley 1st. Findlay had by far the superior vocals as well as the better show, but Teays was flashy and had some great things going for them.
Huntington North 2005: We all know about this Fiasco. Ben Davis walks away with the best vocals, Center Grove best choreography, and then Franklin Central wins the entire thing??? All three groups were great, but the entertainment value to the judges was what prevailed. And in that competition, FC did have the most entertaining show, but vocally to Ben Davis and choreo to CG, they were close, but not there.
You have to realize, what judges are told and what they do is different. Personal taste will come into play....SHOW CHOIR can become completely subjective. It is left up to the subject to decide who gets what. It is their opinon, their day, and their score that maters.
And i agree that judges punishing a group for their show is preposterous, but it happens. that's why the group has to give the judges a reason for them to place well.
but those are just my opinons....just like eevryone elses...........
Though Ben Davis may not dance much in their opener, They still have some of the most challenging choreography in the state qualificating choirs. No offense to Plainfield at all, but Jarad Voss gives Ben Davis very challenging choreo compared to Jeff VanParis' choreography. Also, they may have cut their guy/girl numbers, but they had to add in and learn tons more choreography. And, by a reliable source, I know that the reason they cut their guys and girls number is due to technical difficulties. (The Lift Broke, and the girl in Love Potion got injured badly)
Also, despite the whole "show liking" thing, Dekalb can not be denied the talents they bring to their show. Maybe the judges did like a classical approach better, but they SHOULD not be punished due to their directors show choices.
The judging was screwy, and this was obvious to me when the Warren Central Hi-Lites, and Anderson's Girls(Class act?) were not in the top 6 girl choirs.
I completely understand where you are coming from. Ben Davis is a very talented group of kids and they deserved it just as much as anyone else.
QUOTE(NickBonez5 @ Mar 21 2007, 05:04 PM) [snapback]396105[/snapback]
I don't mean to be rude but Ben Davis cut their guys and girls number, and didn't dance for almost half of the opener. I know it has been a rebuilding year for them. The judges really seemed to like more of a classical approach as evidenced by the results. Also, Dekalb has a great show, they beat us badly I believe at the Ohio Valley Invite a few weeks back. These set of judges just seemed to like our (Plainfield's) show a little bit more. It was a thrill for us to finish in the top 6 and top 3 visually especially considering some of the stuff we have been trough this year. It was really great to finish my career with 5th RU at state. Everyone had great shows and i can't wait to watch them again. Also Anderson's opener is so tight.
Though Ben Davis may not dance much in their opener, They still have some of the most challenging choreography in the state qualificating choirs. No offense to Plainfield at all, but Jarad Voss gives Ben Davis very challenging choreo compared to Jeff VanParis' choreography. Also, they may have cut their guy/girl numbers, but they had to add in and learn tons more choreography. And, by a reliable source, I know that the reason they cut their guys and girls number is due to technical difficulties. (The Lift Broke, and the girl in Love Potion got injured badly)
Also, despite the whole "show liking" thing, Dekalb can not be denied the talents they bring to their show. Maybe the judges did like a classical approach better, but they SHOULD not be punished due to their directors show choices.
The judging was screwy, and this was obvious to me when the Warren Central Hi-Lites, and Anderson's Girls(Class act?) were not in the top 6 girl choirs.
QUOTE(jessfabulous7 @ Mar 23 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]396513[/snapback]
Wellll.....that's all in opinion which is cool..but for me, I am all about the vocals first..and they didn't impress me with their vocals until the ballad which even then I was more impressed by the stage presence...And I didn't care for their outfits either for their closer..I thought IN MY opinion, there was too much gold and white..but thats just what I think.. I don't care either way if it was the set or costumes.. I didn't care for those specific costumes... The other costumes they wore, I liked but those I didn't. So don't criticize me for my opinion please cause I didn't hate their whole show..thanks.
I did not criticize anyone. We are all aware that the majority of posts are in opinion, so it is unnecessary to state this. Sorry if I offended you. What you previously stated didn't make sense to me personally. Anyways....
I wish I could have seen Evening with the Ambassadors tonight! A few of the people from my choir went to see them tonight to see what they had that was so special and they all thought it was a really good show. So congrats Ambassadors on yet another successful show. I can't wait to see what you guys bring to comp. next year!
I am worried now that Carmel will take first place at competitions next year, its sad because my choir use to be the one on top. hmm well o well what are you going to do?!
I am glad to know that some people knew what I meant by the Ambassadors being the Carmel Ambassadors. Congrats to the Ambassadors and Accents at evening tonight....WOW, it was so funny to see your director with that much passion at the end to be so excited that he was skipping over the stage with such excitement. If a director has that much passion and thrill with his choir, than the kids must also represent that. I really liked how Carmel added new stuff into the show as well that we hadnt seen at competitions, it was cool to see what also they could do. I really loved the broadway numbers, and the chorus line number. Cant wait to see what you guys bring to the competitions next year. I am so excited!
Carmel was excellent on their closer, but they just weren't very exciting at the beginning. I thought there were 2 ballads for a moment, but it really doesn't matter what I think. It's all up to the judges and the judges thought that Carmel did it big!
So CONGRATULATIONS CARMEL ON YOUR ISSMA STATE show choir WIN!
can't wait to see what everyone comes up w/ next year!!!!
QUOTE(juliofrommississippi @ Mar 23 2007, 06:57 PM) [snapback]396543[/snapback]
well i think livininchoir has a point there and i agree. why do people want clinton to lose every year? because they want to see something special happen and they wanna see the powerhouse go down. they don't want to have clinton be the best every year. i think it might not be complete jealousy, but more they wish they were better. I don't know how to articulate it exactly, but I also agree that one reason people might be arguing is they are a little mad/jealous that in a choir's first year back competing they have SUCH a successful season.
QUOTE(jessfabulous7 @ Mar 23 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]396514[/snapback]
Umm..ok has anyone here, been jealous or said anything that might sound like they were jealous..um no. OPINIONS..take it or leave it... if people don't want to give them credit for their vocals choreo or visual becuase they didnt like it then OH WELL. BUt I don't think anyone is jealous of carmel show choir..About the only reason why I would be jealous is that big ass school just in itself, not the people, just becuase they come from a more ellaborate, bigger school doesn't mean anything to me, if they have better athletes then they do..in somes opinions and in others no they don't but .lol that's a big school.
well i think livininchoir has a point there and i agree. why do people want clinton to lose every year? because they want to see something special happen and they wanna see the powerhouse go down. they don't want to have clinton be the best every year. i think it might not be complete jealousy, but more they wish they were better. I don't know how to articulate it exactly, but I also agree that one reason people might be arguing is they are a little mad/jealous that in a choir's first year back competing they have SUCH a successful season.
QUOTE(livininchoir @ Mar 22 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]396407[/snapback]
I think people dont want to give Carmel credit, becuase they ARE CARMEL. Lets be realistic not that many people like Carmel because of the history and the awards they have one and received fair and square. Carmel's athletic program is ranked in the top 10 nation wide, their Marching Band does very well at BOA nationals (2005 national champ) and the Accents have always done well when competing in the past. In addition, the long history of the Ambassadors competing in Bishop Luers in the 1980s and beating many favorite choirs has made Carmel a target for jealously rather than compliments. I think because of the styles of today, such as the Contemporary themes that come from many show choirs nowadays, Carmel seems to be a sleeping giant, however, doing very well on scoresheets because of their traditional views of show choir, and after all ...as said by others, the Carmel Ambassadors "created show choir".
Umm..ok has anyone here, been jealous or said anything that might sound like they were jealous..um no. OPINIONS..take it or leave it... if people don't want to give them credit for their vocals choreo or visual becuase they didnt like it then OH WELL. BUt I don't think anyone is jealous of carmel show choir..About the only reason why I would be jealous is that big ass school just in itself, not the people, just becuase they come from a more ellaborate, bigger school doesn't mean anything to me, if they have better athletes then they do..in somes opinions and in others no they don't but .lol that's a big school.
Indiana State Competition 2007
Show + choir = show choir.
